The Ravens Way & Baltimores Identity

[Strange Bru]

What good is it to have people on ignore, if you people are going to quote his posts. That is what he lives for please stop it.

[HOF58]

What good is it to have people on ignore, if you people are going to quote his posts. That is what he lives for please stop it.

Is this all you ever talk about?

[jimjim5]

Doesn't matter. As long as he makes a reasoned argument without being combative. If your definition of a "troll" is someone who incites, then there's plenty of "trolls" among this forum too.

Ignore lists are for wimps, IMO. I say post whatever you want. If you are an idiot, it will show.

I see you deleted/changed your original post directed towards me? Guess you realized that the joke was on you?

if your going to bite, I am going to bite back harder.

[bensmotorcyclehelmet]

Trolls incite only. And they never post anything even remotely intellectually provocative. All of their posts stick to stirring the emotions. Thus if you keep emotion out of your posts and talk football, the trolls disappear as they realize they can't keep up...
Presto!

[WhereHaveUGoneJohnnyU]

What good is it to have people on ignore, if you people are going to quote his posts. That is what he lives for please stop it.

Is this a forum where grown ups can discuss the Ravens & other NFL topics as it says or a Ravens cheerleading squad for little girls? What are you afraid of Strange Bru? Is anyone who disagrees with you a troll?

[OriginalColtsFan]

I really dont see how our identity is any different that the Steelers identity. The Steelers have more history and success, but as far as identity is concerned, I dont see much of a difference and I think most level-headed, non-trolling Steeler fans would agree. They've said so on these boards.

The Ravens FO/PR machine itself has clearly stated on several occasions that the long range plan for the Ravens is to become more like the Steelers, Pats, and Eagles -- meaning, to CONSISTENTLY win year in and year out. Bisciotti has said it, Newsome has said it, and Harbaugh has said it. And why? Because those are the teams that exemplify consistency. So they want to be like those teams. See? WANT TO BE. Yet each year, they do the sorts of things that KEEP them from achieving that, whether it's overpaying "1st round" picks, signing the wrong personnel (Carr, LJ Smith, etc.), hiring poor coaches (Foerster, Mattison, etc.), mismanaging the cap, drafting bums like Figurs, or whatever. Hence, the term "wannabe" -- since they continue to "want to be" like the true top-tier NFL teams, yet they continue to fail to do so. It's really pretty obvious to anyone without an alternative agenda.

[Raidersofthelostark]

Is this a forum where grown ups can discuss the Ravens & other NFL topics as it says or a Ravens cheerleading squad for little girls? What are you afraid of Strange Bru? Is anyone who disagrees with you a troll?

You had it right the first time. It's because they ARE little *** whining *** girls who only see the ravens and they ruin the board with their actions. They cry every week.

Welcome to the board steeler fan. I am a raider fan and I welcome good football talk from everyone. I like most of your fans better because you all are mostly the level headed ones. Very few of the ravens fans here use their brains and keep it football.

[Pickle20]

The Ravens FO/PR machine itself has clearly stated on several occasions that the long range plan for the Ravens is to become more like the Steelers, Pats, and Eagles -- meaning, to CONSISTENTLY win year in and year out. Bisciotti has said it, Newsome has said it, and Harbaugh has said it. And why? Because those are the teams that exemplify consistency. So they want to be like those teams. See? WANT TO BE. Yet each year, they do the sorts of things that KEEP them from achieving that, whether it's overpaying "1st round" picks, signing the wrong personnel (Carr, LJ Smith, etc.), hiring poor coaches (Foerster, Mattison, etc.), mismanaging the cap, drafting bums like Figurs, or whatever. Hence, the term "wannabe" -- since they continue to "want to be" like the true top-tier NFL teams, yet they continue to fail to do so. It's really pretty obvious to anyone without an alternative agenda.

I don't even know why I am responding to you...a Colts fan who chides the Ravens for doing things "the wrong way" when the Colts regularly choke in the playoffs and have exactly 1 SB win (the same amount as the Ravens) in the last 38 years.

Every team makes mistakes...even the mighty Steelers, Colts and Patriots.

How's Limas Sweed working out for Pittsburgh? Or Adalius Thomas & Laurence Maroney for New England? Or Anthony Gonzalez for Indy?

The Ravens have been right with those teams when it comes to drafting talent. So they whiffed here and there on a Chris Carr or Foxworth (it's still just 6 games into their career with the Ravens, no less).

You're becoming more and more of a contradictory troll with each critical post you make.

[Pickle20]

You had it right the first time. It's because they ARE little *** whining *** girls who only see the ravens and they ruin the board with their actions. They cry every week.

Welcome to the board steeler fan. I am a raider fan and I welcome good football talk from everyone. I like most of your fans better because you all are mostly the level headed ones. Very few of the ravens fans here use their brains and keep it football.

Sure there are a few idiot Ravens fans here. There are also a bunch of idiot Steeler and Colt fans here too.

You seem like a down to earth guy...so please recognize the trolls when you see them, regardless of if they are Ravens trolls or not.

And you will see that WhereHaveUGoneJohnnyU is a troll.

[bensmotorcyclehelmet]

The Ravens FO/PR machine itself has clearly stated on several occasions that the long range plan for the Ravens is to become more like the Steelers, Pats, and Eagles -- meaning, to CONSISTENTLY win year in and year out. Bisciotti has said it, Newsome has said it, and Harbaugh has said it. And why? Because those are the teams that exemplify consistency. So they want to be like those teams. See? WANT TO BE. Yet each year, they do the sorts of things that KEEP them from achieving that, whether it's overpaying "1st round" picks, signing the wrong personnel (Carr, LJ Smith, etc.), hiring poor coaches (Foerster, Mattison, etc.), mismanaging the cap, drafting bums like Figurs, or whatever. Hence, the term "wannabe" -- since they continue to "want to be" like the true top-tier NFL teams, yet they continue to fail to do so. It's really pretty obvious to anyone without an alternative agenda.

And likewise the problem also arises from the fans of the top tier teams who think their s-doesn't stink at all...

It's amazing what one good or lucky pick at QB can do...Its a QB driven league and thosewith a franchise QB are better suited to hide their weaknesses.

All of those teams you mentioned have had consistency at the QB, and that makes the poor draft choices/bad coaching/signings/cap mismanagement and the rest of the things you mentioned less apparent when the most important position on the team is addressed.

We could also talk about drafting bums like Quinn Pitcock, or Damien Hughes who aren't even in the league anymore...or salary cap mismanagement and still paying old/retired or oft injuered players like Marvin Harrison $6.4 mil or Adam Vinateri $3 million...

but yeah, I'm glad to hear from someone without a slanted agenda...

[WhereHaveUGoneJohnnyU]

Sure there are a few idiot Ravens fans here. There are also a bunch of idiot Steeler and Colt fans here too.

You seem like a down to earth guy...so please recognize the trolls when you see them, regardless of if they are Ravens trolls or not.

And you will see that WhereHaveUGoneJohnnyU is a troll.

Man, you must be pickled. Do you see trolls in your sleep?

But seriously folks I'm not trying to badmouth the Ravens or their fans. I love Baltimore, & football. I just have some issues & opinions on the current team. I think I have as much a right to express them as the 'troll hunters' like Pickle, who look under every rock to attack & insult those who disagree with his views. can someone inform him what a forum is??

[bensmotorcyclehelmet]

I don't even know why I am responding to you...a Colts fan who chides the Ravens for doing things "the wrong way" when the Colts regularly choke in the playoffs and have exactly 1 SB win (the same amount as the Ravens) in the last 38 years.

Every team makes mistakes...even the mighty Steelers, Colts and Patriots.

How's Limas Sweed working out for Pittsburgh? Or Adalius Thomas & Laurence Maroney for New England? Or Anthony Gonzalez for Indy?

The Ravens have been right with those teams when it comes to drafting talent. So they whiffed here and there on a Chris Carr or Foxworth (it's still just 6 games into their career with the Ravens, no less).

You're becoming more and more of a contradictory troll with each critical post you make.

Bingo!

[ms maggie]

This is an interesting topic, going back to the very beginning of the thread--what does Play like a Raven or the Raven Way mean?

There are certain teams that have a very strong identity or "positioning" as they say in the marketing biz--Pats (business like, tremendously efficient, cold); Dallas (America's team, glitzy and grand, cleancut); Steelers (old fashioned smash mouth, gritty); Oakland (outlaws, slightly sinister).

Problems arise when the product no longer matches the identity--how sinister is Oakland when they can't get out of their own way? Of course these identities can withstand off years, it's when the product isn't congruent with the identity for a long period that it becomes a real problem (Cleveland Browns--does anyone know what this franchise is trying to convey?)

Now this may or may not be important, does it contribute one iota to a W or L? Think it has value in building the long term equity of the franchise but that's hard to prove. Suspect it does relate to the organization's culture, don't ask me how specifically.

Are the Ravens in the midst of an identity crisis? Has Ray Lewis been the face of the franchise for so long that any change is problematic? (Think Indy has the same problem in a sense: most people IMO think Colts and they think Peyton Manning, everything else is a distant second. Which is fine as long as Manning is their fab QB.)

Forgive my rambling!!! (I know a lot more about marketing than football!!)

[bensmotorcyclehelmet]

This is an interesting topic, going back to the very beginning of the thread--what does Play like a Raven or the Raven Way mean?

There are certain teams that have a very strong identity or "positioning" as they say in the marketing biz--Pats (business like, tremendously efficient, cold); Dallas (America's team, glitzy and grand, cleancut); Steelers (old fashioned smash mouth, gritty); Oakland (outlaws, slightly sinister).

Problems arise when the product no longer matches the identity--how sinister is Oakland when they can't get out of their own way? Of course these identities can withstand off years, it's when the product isn't congruent with the identity for a long period that it becomes a real problem (Cleveland Browns--does anyone know what this franchise is trying to convey?)

Now this may or may not be important, does it contribute one iota to a W or L? Think it has value in building the long term equity of the franchise but that's hard to prove. Suspect it does relate to the organization's culture, don't ask me how specifically.

Are the Ravens in the midst of an identity crisis? Has Ray Lewis been the face of the franchise for so long that any change is problematic? (Think Indy has the same problem in a sense: most people IMO think Colts and they think Peyton Manning.)

Forgive my rambling!!! (I know a lot more about marketing than football!!)

No, you're absolutely on to something.

The ravens are having an identity crisis, but it's not a bad thing...yet. It happens to every team as players/coaches execs come and go.

Ray was the face of the team and he's not anymore, plain and simple but he can't play forever (despite doing so well for so long!) The ravens are transistionsing from a top tier defensive team to something else...As a ravens fan whatever type it is, I just hope it wins! (But I am hopeful with our young Oline, QB and RBs!)

Look at how the steelers have transitioned from a run-first team to a pass happy juggernaught. It's quite different from the Slash/Bettis days... They also didn;t seem to miss abeat between cowher and Tomlin- Another great transition job by the Steelers! Likewise, look at how the indy colts have transformed from an also-ran that couldn't get out of it's own way into a playoff regular with Peyton...SO far they have survived the transistion between coaches well too. THe next one will be coming once peyton retires in a few years.

As personel changes, so do teams.

Teams that can survive a transition or two are the great ones...

[HOF58]

No, you're absolutely on to something.

The ravens are having an identity crisis, but it's not a bad thing...yet. It happens to every team as players/coaches execs come and go.

Ray was the face of the team and he's not anymore, plain and simple but he can't play forever (despite doing so well for so long!) The ravens are transistionsing from a top tier defensive team to something else...As a ravens fan whatever type it is, I just hope it wins! (But I am hopeful with our young Oline, QB and RBs!)

Look at how the steelers have transitioned from a run-first team to a pass happy juggernaught. It's quite different from the Slash/Bettis days... They also didn;t seem to miss abeat between cowher and Tomlin- Another great transition job by the Steelers! Likewise, look at how the indy colts have transformed from an also-ran that couldn't get out of it's own way into a playoff regular with Peyton...SO far they have survived the transistion between coaches well too. THe next one will be coming once peyton retires in a few years.

As personel changes, so do teams.

Teams that can survive a transition or two are the great ones...

Good points. It is interesting how the fan base takes a while to buy into the transition. If you ever read Steeler Nation you will see outcries for the head of Bruce Arians for his play calling and for ignoring the run.

Mendenhall averaged 6.9 yardsper carry against the Vikings but only got ten carries. They won the game but the fans are irate. Bettis must be laughing.

[WhereHaveUGoneJohnnyU]

This is an interesting topic, going back to the very beginning of the thread--what does Play like a Raven or the Raven Way mean?

There are certain teams that have a very strong identity or "positioning" as they say in the marketing biz--Pats (business like, tremendously efficient, cold); Dallas (America's team, glitzy and grand, cleancut); Steelers (old fashioned smash mouth, gritty); Oakland (outlaws, slightly sinister).

Problems arise when the product no longer matches the identity--how sinister is Oakland when they can't get out of their own way? Of course these identities can withstand off years, it's when the product isn't congruent with the identity for a long period that it becomes a real problem (Cleveland Browns--does anyone know what this franchise is trying to convey?)

Now this may or may not be important, does it contribute one iota to a W or L? Think it has value in building the long term equity of the franchise but that's hard to prove. Suspect it does relate to the organization's culture, don't ask me how specifically.

Are the Ravens in the midst of an identity crisis? Has Ray Lewis been the face of the franchise for so long that any change is problematic? (Think Indy has the same problem in a sense: most people IMO think Colts and they think Peyton Manning, everything else is a distant second. Which is fine as long as Manning is their fab QB.)

Forgive my rambling!!! (I know a lot more about marketing than football!!)

excellent insight MM. I also have done marketing work & understand the psychology of branding & it's affect on the marketplace. Maybe seeing the Raven Way as a brand will help some to understand my view that it is only hurting the Ravens. No one here will disagree that the Ravens are loaded with talent, yet somehow constantly lose to the elite teams.They constantly are their own worst enemies with penalties & arguing over rules & officiating. What will propel them to that elite status? They need to improve their brand, learn to be more controlled, more professional, more mature. The brand they now play has kept them in the middle of the pack. They can play better, all can agree with this. They can be a more successful franchise. Abandoning the 'Raven Way' & moving on to a more solid mature franchise is the best way to do that in my opinion. Everyone here is welcome to disagree. Go Ravens!!

[FormerCat]

The "Play Like a Raven" deal is also supposed to mean playing physical for 60 minutes and and playing that way "all the way to triple zeroes" as I heard Ray Lewis call it once. Despite the recent pass happiness (no problem with it) the Ravens have been a physical, straight-ahead style running team for almost a decade now (the first Ted Marchibroda years not withstanding). They weren't a "finesse" or "edge" team. They were man-on-man physical on offense and "stop the run first" on defense. A lot of that is still evident but they are definitely a team in transition. I think that's what most of the negative posters have a problem with. The players are not immediately adapting to the change (whether they like it or not) and the average fan hasn't got the patience for it. Especially on the heels of a three-game losing streak.

And yes Steeler fans, I know that the original "60-Minute Men" were Bill Cowher's early 90's Steelers. I know because I still have the shirt. Hey, Baltimore didn't have a team and is was a cool shirt!

[Pickle20]

I didn't know team mottos were such a hot topic.

[OriginalColtsFan]

The "Play Like a Raven" deal is also supposed to mean playing physical for 60 minutes and and playing that way "all the way to triple zeroes" as I heard Ray Lewis call it once. Despite the recent pass happiness (no problem with it) the Ravens have been a physical, straight-ahead style running team for almost a decade now (the first Ted Marchibroda years not withstanding). They weren't a "finesse" or "edge" team. They were man-on-man physical on offense and "stop the run first" on defense. A lot of that is still evident but they are definitely a team in transition. I think that's what most of the negative posters have a problem with. The players are not immediately adapting to the change (whether they like it or not) and the average fan hasn't got the patience for it. Especially on the heels of a three-game losing streak.

And yes Steeler fans, I know that the original "60-Minute Men" were Bill Cowher's early 90's Steelers. I know because I still have the shirt. Hey, Baltimore didn't have a team and is was a cool shirt!

Somewhat ironically, the Steelers have melded into a team that relies more on Ben's passing than on their running game. But you don't hear anyone saying the Steelers are having an identity crisis, because they've just shifted gears and are moving forward. Maybe it's the combination of their personnel and their coaching staff that's allowing them to do so. After all, they still have Ben, a nice WR corps, and Lebeau, while the Ravens have Joe, Ray Rice, Derck Mason, and Mattison.

[BLSmokey]

naah, nothing like the raizens and you know it. ray ray signed for three years? u think ray ray'd be on any of their rosters at this pt

Ray could be on at least two of those three, probably all three. The Steelers wouldn't keep Ray but they keep Farrior? Patriots wouldn't let Ray stay, but they kept Bruschi around and keep signing Seau? Regarding the Colts, Ray would be an upgrade over any LB on that team, so I would assume they would keep him around too. Please don't let stupidity get in the way of your otherwise humorous posts.