"How come Bolton Hill is white?"

[bmore_ken]

Ken--

I was working the door most of the evening, but I did buy the book and get it signed by Mr. Pietila. It looks quite interesting. Did you make it?

I didn't matt. I ended up having to take care of an issue at my son's school that apparently his mother couldn't handle. Did he autograph any? That was the main reason I wanted to come

[Baltimatt]

Yes, he signed my book, which I bought for $20. Amazon is selling it for $19.11.

Sorry you couldn't make it. I was looking forward to meeting you.

[bmore_ken]

Same here. I was not a happy camper last night.

[Baltimatt]

Ken--

I don't know if you've read any of the book, but just reading the first ten pages I so, I learned that Johns Hopkins University used to be downtown and that segregation in Baltimore picked up about 100 years ago.

[bmore_ken]

Ken--

I don't know if you've read any of the book, but just reading the first ten pages I so, I learned that Johns Hopkins University used to be downtown and that segregation in Baltimore picked up about 100 years ago.

I actually read the whole thing matt and recommend it to everyone I know. I found it funny that Forest Park used to be considered the suburbs

[RavnFreek]

Not what I said but thanks for the laugh

If that is not what you meant, then can you please explain what you meant by..

"Drugs that one race of people introduced to those neighborhoods to make money"
?

[ckferg]

Ever been to Baltimore? Doesn't sound like it.

4th Generation Baltimorean. Live in the County now, but have either lived or worked in Baltimore my entire life.

[ckferg]

Can you back that number up with some documentation? Thanks in advance

http://urbanhealth.jhu.edu/media/rep..._baltimore.pdf

[bmore_ken]

If that is not what you meant, then can you please explain what you meant by..

"Drugs that one race of people introduced to those neighborhoods to make money"
?

Since you jumped in the thread late and failed to read what came before you I'll try to break it down to third grade level. One of the resident bigots made this comment

The bigger question is why would neighborhoods turn into violent cesspools once one race of people move out and another move in?

To start with there are plenty of non cesspool black neighborhoods in this country, but let's work with Baltimore for a minute. Black neighborhoods in the 40's and 50's were not cesspools. Most black neighborhoods at the time were extremely stable and good places to live.

Starting in the 60's, drugs were introduced into the black community at the same time whites were moving to the suburbs and taking money and jobs with them. So when blacks started inhabiting those communities after the white flight, they were already starting with problems that are still affecting some black communities today. Poverty being the main culprit, lack of education due to not having equally finded schools. Enter the introduction of drugs to a poor community(intensified when crack hit in the 80's) you now have neighborhoods full of crime due to the drug trade, kids that see selling drugs and making quick money more important than education, as well as a populace more worried about a crack hit than their own neighborhood.

Granted despite researcher's dumb comment, it's true no one forced any black person to use or sell a drug(nor have I ever on this board defended drug use) and that wasn't the point of the comment I made that you seem to have a problem with, but it was definitely a contributor to why some black communities went downhill. You're seeing the exact same issue with many white communities in the midwest except it's meth instead of crack. I doubt I can explain it any clearer to you

[bmore_ken]

http://urbanhealth.jhu.edu/media/rep..._baltimore.pdf

Substance Use
 It is estimated that there are 60,000 drug dependent Baltimore City
residents, out of a population of 650,000. The most commonly abused
substances are heroin and crack cocaine.
 Positive drug tests are found among approximately 70% of arrested
Baltimore City residents.


You do know what estimated means don't you?

[ckferg]

Substance Use
 It is estimated that there are 60,000 drug dependent Baltimore City
residents, out of a population of 650,000. The most commonly abused
substances are heroin and crack cocaine.
 Positive drug tests are found among approximately 70% of arrested
Baltimore City residents.


You do know what estimated means don't you?

Yes, unless they regularly drug tested all 650,000 people over period of time, any study would produce an estimate.

[ckferg]

To start with there are plenty of non cesspool black neighborhoods in this country, but let's work with Baltimore for a minute. Black neighborhoods in the 40's and 50's were not cesspools. Most black neighborhoods at the time were extremely stable and good places to live.

Starting in the 60's, drugs were introduced into the black community at the same time whites were moving to the suburbs and taking money and jobs with them. So when blacks started inhabiting those communities after the white flight, they were already starting with problems that are still affecting some black communities today. Poverty being the main culprit, lack of education due to not having equally finded schools. Enter the introduction of drugs to a poor community(intensified when crack hit in the 80's) you now have neighborhoods full of crime due to the drug trade, kids that see selling drugs and making quick money more important than education, as well as a populace more worried about a crack hit than their own neighborhood.

Granted despite researcher's dumb comment, it's true no one forced any black person to use or sell a drug(nor have I ever on this board defended drug use) and that wasn't the point of the comment I made that you seem to have a problem with, but it was definitely a contributor to why some black communities went downhill. You're seeing the exact same issue with many white communities in the midwest except it's meth instead of crack. I doubt I can explain it any clearer to you

That's a much clearer and more reasonable explanation of your perspective. It's fair to say drugs have a prominent role in the dysfunction of the City; but poverty, the breakdown of the family unit, and lack of education are all in the mix as well. Drugs are both a symptom and cause of other problems. Unstable families can lead to a greater probability of kids getting mixed up in drugs (symptom); and once hooked substance abusers aren't likely to form stable families (cause).

[bmore_ken]

That's a much clearer and more reasonable explanation of your perspective. It's fair to say drugs have a prominent role in the dysfunction of the City; but poverty, the breakdown of the family unit, and lack of education are all in the mix as well. Drugs are both a symptom and cause of other problems. Unstable families can lead to a greater probability of kids getting mixed up in drugs (symptom); and once hooked substance abusers aren't likely to form stable families (cause).

To be honest it boggles my mind that what I posted needs to be explained to anyone, but there it is. I agree with most of your statement as well. I have to say I'm glad you said "stable families" as opposed to "2 parent families".

[Baltimatt]

Got most of the way through the book over Christmas. Fascinating read. So hard to imagine the pervasiveness of the White Gentile/Jewish/Black divide in the housing market in this city. There's also a chapter about what was happening in Baltimore County in the 60s and 70s. While Spiro Agnew was hardly a raging liberal, it's hard to imagine him in the Republican Party of today for some of his view (i.e, gun control).

[Bloomin Onion]

Well Highlandtown is now filled with illegal Mexicans. So is "Greek"town!!!!!!!!! The old Italian, Greek, and Polish immigrants in the city had respect for their communities and for this country and wanted to be Americans.

The new wave of illegal Mexican aliens especially the Dreamers have no respect for this country, have no desire to learn English or be American, they hate this country and our culture and values, and are only here to take advatnage of us financially to benefit themselves. Too bad the Maryland electorate didn't realize this.

[Baltimatt]

Well Highlandtown is now filled with illegal Mexicans. So is "Greek"town!!!!!!!!! The old Italian, Greek, and Polish immigrants in the city had respect for their communities and for this country and wanted to be Americans.

The new wave of illegal Mexican aliens especially the Dreamers have no respect for this country, have no desire to learn English or be American, they hate this country and our culture and values, and are only here to take advatnage of us financially to benefit themselves. Too bad the Maryland electorate didn't realize this.

Dude, you are obsessed! You could use a weather report as a springboard to rail against illegal immigrants. I can just picture you and your beloved spending your wedding night worrying about whether an illegal cleaned your hotel room.

I recall seeing some signs in European languages back the the neighborhoods you were talking about. Yes, people learned English but also retained their old languages. What makes you say Dreamers don't speak English?

In case you hadn't noticed, this thread is about housing discrimination back in the good old days. Back in the good old days, people with your ancestry couldn't become American citizens--they were seen as so different that it would be impossible for them to assimilate.

[Bloomin Onion]

Illegal aliens should not be allowed to rent homes. Some visionary anti-illegal laws like in Hazelton, Pennsylvania and I think Manassas or Springfield, Virginia also addressed this issue. Depriving illegals a place to live is an effective way of keeping them out of town.

I don't see why it can't be a requirement for landlords to check for proof of citizenship or legal residency before renting, just like an employer must legally check to see if someone is legal. I don't know why colleges are not required to check for citizenship before admitting people. I have friends whose parents grew up in Highlandtown in the 50s and 60s and they reminisce about how it was a better time and place. Before the rise of crime and drugs in the 70s and 80s and the influx of illegal immigrants in recent years. Now driving down Eastern Avenue it feels like I am in Juarez or Tijuana.

The attitudes of the illegal Mexicans are different than the attitudes of Asian Americans or of past European immigrants to the United States. Many of them also believe in a racial sense of "Reconquista" like we owe them because of the Mexican-American War which we won. Many illegals have a sense of entitltment toward our country, the Dreamers most of all. And they mostly send their money back to Mexico and do not spend most of it in the US. I don't know why more people in Maryland didn't wake up and vote against illegal immigration at the ballot.

[bmore_ken]

Got most of the way through the book over Christmas. Fascinating read. So hard to imagine the pervasiveness of the White Gentile/Jewish/Black divide in the housing market in this city. There's also a chapter about what was happening in Baltimore County in the 60s and 70s. While Spiro Agnew was hardly a raging liberal, it's hard to imagine him in the Republican Party of today for some of his view (i.e, gun control).

What shocked me the most about the book being that I was coming of age after the 60's was how ingrained the federal government was involved. You would hav enever gotten me to believe that FHA help to facilitate the discrimination that was going on. That book is a total eye opener. It actual explains a lot about the reasons for the current condition of Baltimore IMHO

[buzzthefuzz]

The bottom line to all of this is - it's in the genes. A classic example is the Middle East. How long has it been and they still are trying to kill each other.

I say is one of the traits of human nature, like hate, love, jealously, fear, type A, along with all of the other nuts and bolts that make us tick and like a TimeX watch we'll just keep on ticking the same way.

[Bloomin Onion]

Yes, he signed my book, which I bought for $20. Amazon is selling it for $19.11.

Sorry you couldn't make it. I was looking forward to meeting you.

Well I guess neither of yall traveled to Westminster to meet me and hear me speak in favor of the official English language law and my passionate plea against illegal immigration and in defense of our American communities. I was very well received by the natives of the area. The only opposition came from newcomer and carpetbaggers some of whom were threatened with ejection from the meeting for interrupting my speech.