Black teen shot and killed in gated community

[kudzu]

Yes I am, as a matter of fact.

You seemed to be excusing Zimmerman's actions as "protecting his community". Sorry, he crossed the line when he pursued Martin with a gun.

.

With a gun, that he was legally entitled to carry on his person by Florida law ?

If he had his gun out of its holster when he confronted Martin, then I'd be ready to string him up with the rest of you nutters.

But the fact remains that he was legally entitled to carry.

[Wizard777]

100% wrong.

Don't you get tired of being so wrong when you offer up such wrong opinions of the law, especially when the law has been presented to you over and over again?

1 - Yes, you CAN kill someone just because "you're getting your arse kicked." As long as YOU believe that you are in peril of loss of life or great bodily harm. Period.

2. Yes, you retain the right of deadly force even if you are the one that initiated the attack. Period.

You really need to read these laws, then have someone who can comprehend them read them to you.

Does Zimmerman’s Self Defense Claim Depend on Who Started the Fight?

I remember back in the bad old days when certain people would fear for their life because they saw a black person walking down the street. I have seen a woman stop dead in her tracks frozen in stark terror and shrieking because she feared the black man walking on the other side of the street that had looked at her was going to rape her. The question is, was that fear "reasonable?" The woman that fear was very reasonable. To everyone else that saw him and her it was not. She was being foolish.

This is the part that you need to look at.

Such force is so great

The force that Trayvon used against Zimmerman was so great that it didn't cause any skeletal injuries. It did not give him a concussion. Nor did it cause him to believe that he needed to be examined or treated at a hospital. So the force Trayvon used against Zimmerman under the circumstances wasn't even excessive more or less "so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm." Also Zimmerman had not "exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant." We know there was a wound to Trayvon's hand from fighting back against his assailant. Where are the wounds to Zimmermans hands from fighting back against Trayvon? There are none. Why? Because Zimmerman did not exhaust every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant. Zimmerman shot Trayvon as a first option. Not as a last resort. So I don't see where Zimmerman would have the grounds to invoke that provision of the law.

Here you can cherry pick phrases in the law. But in court the WHOLE of the law shall be applied.

[Daan]

With a gun, that he was legally entitled to carry on his person by Florida law ?

If he had his gun out of its holster when he confronted Martin, then I'd be ready to string him up with the rest of you nutters.

But the fact remains that he was legally entitled to carry.

His right to carry isn't the issue.

You know Zimmerman did not pull or display his gun.

Take your "nutter" label and stick it ...

.

[kudzu]

His right to carry isn't the issue.

You know Zimmerman did not pull or display his gun.

Take your "nutter" label and stick it ...

.

I've been very polite with you in discussing this matter with you so far, Daan.

You're not returning the favor.

[Daan]

I've been very polite with you in discussing this matter with you so far, Daan.

You're not returning the favor.

Calling me a "nutter" is polite?

BS!

.

[kudzu]

Calling me a "nutter" is polite?

BS!

.

A relatively mild slight, given the nature of the conversation.

[Daan]

A relatively mild slight, given the nature of the conversation.

But still not "polite", as you claim to have been,

.

[kudzu]

But still not "polite", as you claim to have been,

.

Ask others around here about my "politeness".

I've given you the kid gloves treatment, relatively, so far.

[Daan]

Ask others around here about my "politeness".

I've given you the kid gloves treatment, relatively, so far.

Give it a rest!

You claimed you were polite and that was BS.

I don't need "the kid gloves treatment". I give as I get.

.

[Mom49of4]

No one knows how this will end. We are all speculating.

[kudzu]

Give it a rest!

You claimed you were polite and that was BS.

I don't need "the kid gloves treatment". I give as I get.

.

As you wish.

[mcorioles]

[QUOTE=Wizard777;8034082] I remember back in the bad old days when certain people would fear for their life because they saw a black person walking down the street. I have seen a woman stop dead in her tracks frozen in stark terror and shrieking because she feared the black man walking on the other side of the street that had looked at her was going to rape her. The question is, was that fear "reasonable?" The woman that fear was very reasonable. To everyone else that saw him and her it was not. She was being foolish.

cliched ,tired BS.

[Smokey 1]

Wrong!

Read the aggravated assault statute.

Also read up on Florida's 10-20-life mandatoy sentencing.

The state's "10-20-life" law was implemented in 1999 and credited with helping to lower the violent crime rate. Anyone who shows a gun in the commission of certain felonies [e.g., aggravated assault] gets an automatic 10 years in prison. Fire the gun, and it's an automatic 20 years. Shoot and wound someone, and it's 25 years to life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1530035.html

.

Please cite where it says a person can physically assault someone for following them?

[Daan]

Please cite where it says a person can physically assault someone for following them?

Never claimed it said that.

.

[mcorioles]

Here are two posts that indicate you are not well informed on the subject being discussed:

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showpos...postcount=5832

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showpos...postcount=5836

.

Here you go sport, 1. The only mistake I made was not cross referencing MSNBC.2. I am going by the 911 transcripts and when told he didn't have to continue following Martin he said ok.You don't know that he didn't and I have no reason not to believe him.MSNBC has not had time to do their homework with the Zimmerman evidence dump [but the WaPo did; see UPDATE]:

But the documents give contradictory assessments of how far away Zimmerman was when he shot Martin.

Lab tests by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Orlando operations center concluded that residue tests on Martin's sweatshirt were "consistent with a contact shot" — that is, one in which the muzzle of the weapon is physically touching the victim.

But the autopsy report from the Volusia County (Fla.) Medical Examiner's office reached a different conclusion based on examination of the wound itself, saying, "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range."

The report doesn't define "intermediate range."

[Smokey 1]

Never claimed it said that.

.

I posted; TM kicking his butt is still an illegal attack as long as GZ didn't touch him first.

Then you posted;

Wrong!

Read the aggravated assault statute.

[Daan]

Here you go sport, 1. The only mistake I made was not cross referencing MSNBC.2. I am going by the 911 transcripts and when told he didn't have to continue following Martin he said ok.You don't know that he didn't and I have no reason not to believe him.MSNBC has not had time to do their homework with the Zimmerman evidence dump [but the WaPo did; see UPDATE]:

But the documents give contradictory assessments of how far away Zimmerman was when he shot Martin.

Lab tests by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Orlando operations center concluded that residue tests on Martin's sweatshirt were "consistent with a contact shot" — that is, one in which the muzzle of the weapon is physically touching the victim.

But the autopsy report from the Volusia County (Fla.) Medical Examiner's office reached a different conclusion based on examination of the wound itself, saying, "This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range."

The report doesn't define "intermediate range."

That's right, the autopsy report says "intermediate range". You only need to do a simple search to find out that "intermediate range" can be up to 18 inches, it does not mean specifically 2 to 4 inches that you stated. I'm interested in what you found, please post the link.

Okay, "sport", I said that Zimmerman said "okay" at 2 minutes and 30 seconds into his 911 call. But Zimmerman did not then return to his truck to wait for the reponding officer. At the end of the 4 minute 911 call, Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher to have the responding officer call Zimmerman's cell phone to find out where he would be. About 2 minutes after Zimmerman's 911 call ended, the fatal shot is heard on another 911 call. The scene of the shooting is no where near Zimmerman's truck which, as I think you said, was near the club house.

Here's Zimmerman's complete 911 call:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8

.

[mcorioles]

I just told you this is what I read,why would I search at the time for anything contradicting what was reported by a supposed reputable news source? Well I'm sure anyone could see why I didn't doubt the MSNBC info because we all know they wouldn't post anything that favored Zimmerman's POV so I thought it had to be accurate. Here is the link .http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...zimmerman?lite

[Daan]

I posted; TM kicking his butt is still an illegal attack as long as GZ didn't touch him first.

Then you posted;

You do not have touch someone to commit assault.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0784.011.html

and aggravated assault occurs when a gun is introduced

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0784.021.html


My opinion, that Zimmerman assaulted Martin, is based on the reported statement of Martin's girl friend. Even though she wasn't there, Martin was telling her that he was afraid the strange man following him would do him harm. Then Martin tells her that the strange man is right behind him as he is walking fast to get to the house where he is staying. Just before the call goes dead she says she heard Martin say "get off, get off".

.

.

[Daan]

I just told you this is what I read,why would I search at the time for anything contradicting what was reported by a supposed reputable news source? Well I'm sure anyone could see why I didn't doubt the MSNBC info because we all know they wouldn't post anything that favored Zimmerman's POV so I thought it had to be accurate. Here is the link .http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...zimmerman?lite

Okay, it will get resolved in court.

.