Final Day for General Assembly and Still No Budget

[OldBay]

Just who is it that mandates this spending? ( aside from the ole' unfunded federal mandates, that is)

Special funds are federal funds with strings attached. The state agrees to perform the work and submit reports showing that it has done the work. When I write a grant proposal and it gets funded by the feds, the state legislators cannot come along and take that funding and use it for something else. Many of the state workers that posters on here love to hate actually save the state money by getting federal funds that would otherwise go to other states. In 27 years, I have never taken one dime of state general funds for pay or benefits, and neither have the most disrespected and undervalued people with whom I have been privileged to work. Those fed funds are listed in the state budget under special funds and part of the total 35B. Other mandates are by federal and state law. The link shows general funds that are mandated. You do NOT want legislators getting their hands on the entire 35B budget. Most posters here think that is what happens but that would be ridiculous.

[Saticon3]

Special funds are federal funds with strings attached. The state agrees to perform the work and submit reports showing that it has done the work. When I write a grant proposal and it gets funded by the feds, the state legislators cannot come along and take that funding and use it for something else. Many of the state workers that posters on here love to hate actually save the state money by getting federal funds that would otherwise go to other states. In 27 years, I have never taken one dime of state general funds for pay or benefits, and neither have the most disrespected and undervalued people with whom I have been privileged to work. Those fed funds are listed in the state budget under special funds and part of the total 35B. Other mandates are by federal and state law. The link shows general funds that are mandated. You do NOT want legislators getting their hands on the entire 35B budget. Most posters here think that is what happens but that would be ridiculous.

So state law can be changed by...........................the State Legislature, no?

[OldBay]

So state law can be changed by...........................the State Legislature, no?

Only when they are in session and if they have the will to do it. They really don't have to cut existing entitlement programs as much as stop passing new ones. It is far easier and quicker for the BPW to just take money from state workers and do more layoffs and furloughs. That takes 5 minutes, not 90 days.

[Saticon3]

The more I learn about the "Doomsday Budget" the more I like it. I can only hope Miller continues his bull-headedness on gambling and keeps enough of them from agreeing on a special session/ tax increase budget like the politicos want.

We've heard all the horror stories, but its never been tried-- let's do the 2% cuts and then we all will see if its doomsday or a more lean reasonable government- of course that is probably the last thing "they" want, for us to discover the vast majority of us can do quite well with a 2% cut to the general fund.

[johnpolitics]

Doomsday might not happen because MOM will get the blame and he doesn't want that.

[OldBay]

The more I learn about the "Doomsday Budget" the more I like it. I can only hope Miller continues his bull-headedness on gambling and keeps enough of them from agreeing on a special session/ tax increase budget like the politicos want.

We've heard all the horror stories, but its never been tried-- let's do the 2% cuts and then we all will see if its doomsday or a more lean reasonable government- of course that is probably the last thing "they" want, for us to discover the vast majority of us can do quite well with a 2% cut to the general fund.

As long as you have yours, then the hell with everyone else, right?

[Saticon3]

As long as you have yours, then the hell with everyone else, right?

Nope, not just me, I mean like John Stuart Mill.

Regardless,imho, lets fish and not cut bait, let's see how we do with the doomsday budget-- if it turns out the sky fell like they say, then they can crank the taxes up as much as they want next year and folks won;t complain-- if the sky falls with the 2% cuts that is.

I not a tea partier, but I do believe government at all levels is too big and does more than it should. You seem wrapped up in the culture with your reference to the shell game of federal money to state, state money to counties-- as if that's a good thing---- the feds should not be paying for things that are state functions as the state should not be paying for things that are local needs- its all a huge shell game of shfting money away from us then back to us- well some of us-- through various slayers of bureaucracy so politicians at all levels can take credit for it and get re-elected.

I don't want state workers and elected officials bringing home the bacon to my district, I would rather the feds and state didn't take the money in the first place, let locals take care of local needs and let states and the feds restrict themselves to the truly state- wide and nationwide needs and responsibilities.

[OldBay]

Doomsday might not happen because MOM will get the blame and he doesn't want that.

True. Miller is at fault, but MOM would get the blame if it stands.

[OldBay]

Nope, not just me, I speaking like John Stuart Mill.

Regardless,imho, lets fish and not cut bait, let's see how we do with the doomsday budget-- if it turns out the sky fell like they say, then they can crank the taxes up as much as they want next year and folks won;t complain-- if the sky falls with the 2% cuts that is.

To the teachers, police, and state workers who will be fired, they are 100% cuts. And it is entirely unnecessary to punish people who work every day for the public and have done no wrong. Its disgusting and you should be ashamed.

I feel sorry for you that you are so miserable with your own life that you want your neighbors to be harmed without reason.

[Saticon3]

I don't think that'll happen. I've been a police officer for over 34 years-- in my experience, all the federal and state grant money has gone to things like paying us overtime (in my case, about $40.00/hour) to set up DWI checkpoints and walk foot patrol in targeted areas, enforce seatbealt laws, -- nice to have, (depending on your particular point of view) but not really essential in lean times. Do you really want to pay me $160.00 for me to ride around for four hours, write a few seatbelt tickets, then pay me even more overtime when if just one of those ticketed decides to go to court just hoping the judge will reduce his fine a little? One county I forget which one used their federal keep teachers on board money to give all their teachers and extra two days off with pay a year. My agency never depended on fed or state money for regular salaries except to expand , but those kinds of grants were always capped ar a few years anyway and agencies that used them for new hires knew they would have to pick up the tab at the end of the term, or reduce manpower back down. In any event, if a county or city needs more police officers, then they should raise the money locally to have them, likewise with teachers.

Maybe its just not good times to be a state employee anymore, like all other professions, there are cycles and such-- like ken says about us living in MD, you're not forced to work there are you? I mean you could work elsewhere, right? Nobody's holding your family hostage or keeping you locked up at night to ensure you show up at work the next day are they?

[Eastside Terp]

To the teachers, police, and state workers who will be fired, they are 100% cuts. And it is entirely unnecessary to punish people who work every day for the public and have done no wrong. Its disgusting and you should be ashamed.

I feel sorry for you that you are so miserable with your own life that you want your neighbors to be harmed without reason.

oh please .......

its always the same ole' talking points ........

government is so lean that there is nowhere to cut except police, fire and teachers .......

heck, there are tens of millions if not hundreds of millions to be cut in the administration areas of schools, police and fire but you have hundreds of millions to cut before you even get to that .........

[OldBay]

Nope, not just me, I mean like John Stuart Mill.

Regardless,imho, lets fish and not cut bait, let's see how we do with the doomsday budget-- if it turns out the sky fell like they say, then they can crank the taxes up as much as they want next year and folks won;t complain-- if the sky falls with the 2% cuts that is.

I not a tea partier, but I do believe government at all levels is too big and does more than it should. You seem wrapped up in the culture with your reference to the shell game of federal money to state, state money to counties-- as if that's a good thing---- the feds should not be paying for things that are state functions as the state should not be paying for things that are local needs- its all a huge shell game of shfting money away from us then back to us- well some of us-- through various slayers of bureaucracy so politicians at all levels can take credit for it and get re-elected.

I don't want state workers and elected officials bringing home the bacon to my district, I would rather the feds and state didn't take the money in the first place, let locals take care of local needs and let states and the feds restrict themselves to the truly state- wide and nationwide needs and responsibilities.

You can believe whatever you like - but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. At the end of 2011, the state gov't had been reduced to the level last seen in 1973. The first quarter of 2012 has seen such an exodus of workers from the state as hiring picked up a bit in the private sector, that the level is now that of the 1960's. Was the gov't too big for you in the 1960's?

Your arguments all say "Don't confuse the issue with facts". If you don't care about facts, then all you have is prejudice without reason. If the facts don't support your position, it is because your position is without merit.

Like I said, you got yours and the hell with everyone else.

[jtowne-swim]

Does anyone object to the casino? I think it would be good a full functional high end casino that gives the state 60%

[Saticon3]

well, that's good, and imho it can stand much further reduction.

I stated an opinion , at least the part you bolded, that cannot be confirmed nor dipsuted by fact-- you apparently think government is not too big and does not do too much, while I think the contrary= there is no right or wrong position on that, only opinion.

[Saticon3]

Does anyone object to the casino? I think it would be good a full functional high end casino that gives the state 60%

I don't care one way or the other about it, I think the gain to us a taxpayers will be minimal, they've been promising us lucrative rewards from all forms of gambling but it never seems to really help, but I'm not opposed to gambling, just its not worth the battle-- but in my case, the battle is working for me, if it keeps the doomsday budget in place.

[OldBay]

well, that's good, and imho it can stand much further reduction.

I stated an opinion , at least the part you bolded, that cannot be confirmed nor dipsuted by fact-- you apparently think government is not too big and does not do too much, while I think the contrary= there is no right or wrong position on that, only opinion.

Not so. I have provided evidence to you many times but you refuse to accept facts. The governor's budget presentation has a slide about the state workforce down to the 1973 level. (I have linked that slide several times here) Numbers are easy. Its simple math - and it does not support your unfounded beliefs.

I would hope that a police officer of 34 years would have some respect for evidence. When called to testify, do you also state personal conclusions unsupported by the evidence? I hope not.

[OldBay]

I don't think that'll happen. I've been a police officer for over 34 years-- in my experience, all the federal and state grant money has gone to things like paying us overtime (in my case, about $40.00/hour) to set up DWI checkpoints and walk foot patrol in targeted areas, enforce seatbealt laws, -- nice to have, (depending on your particular point of view) but not really essential in lean times. Do you really want to pay me $160.00 for me to ride around for four hours, write a few seatbelt tickets, then pay me even more overtime when if just one of those ticketed decides to go to court just hoping the judge will reduce his fine a little? One county I forget which one used their federal keep teachers on board money to give all their teachers and extra two days off with pay a year. My agency never depended on fed or state money for regular salaries except to expand , but those kinds of grants were always capped ar a few years anyway and agencies that used them for new hires knew they would have to pick up the tab at the end of the term, or reduce manpower back down. In any event, if a county or city needs more police officers, then they should raise the money locally to have them, likewise with teachers.

Maybe its just not good times to be a state employee anymore, like all other professions, there are cycles and such-- like ken says about us living in MD, you're not forced to work there are you? I mean you could work elsewhere, right? Nobody's holding your family hostage or keeping you locked up at night to ensure you show up at work the next day are they?

So you have benefited personally from special funding by getting overtime that few others get. My co-workers and I are salaried. We get the same pay if we work 48 or 84 hours a week. We provide our own transportation. We are all influenced by what we experience and see. You have seen and benefited from wasteful spending. And I'm telling you that I have seen very little of it at my agency.

And FYI, I love my job. Pointing out the facts to those who refuse to be objective has nothing to do with my job preference.

[Saticon3]

you're not getting it-- the point that government is TOO big and does TOO much is an opinion. We can argue factually by various stats that it has grown or shrunk and you can come up with such "facts" as well as I to counter--- by one measure it will appear to have shrunk, by another to have grown, and neither will have anything to do with our respective views on size of govenment- what it ought to be not what it is, but its strictly an opinion as to which each of us thinks is the APPROPRIATE role and size of gevernment.

You cannot present and "evidence" that government is not TOO big or Does not do TOO much.

Ken always tell those of us who criticize state government that we are free to move to another state, he always says its just a suggestion, so I was just being likewise with you and your job.

so how come state spending outstrips inflation and population growth by so much if MD government is shrinking? The workforce may be shrinking, but if you can show me that spending has shrunk (inflation adjusted and really shrunk, not just not increased as much) then maybe I'll take another look.

[OldBay]

The money spent on state workers has declined along with their numbers every year since 2007 while total state spending has increased. Some agency personnel numbers are at 50% of their staffing level less than ten years ago. This is not my opinion.

If you really care about state spending, I suggest reading the budget and the minutes of the BPW.

[crabsnbeer]

To the teachers, police, and state workers who will be fired, they are 100% cuts. And it is entirely unnecessary to punish people who work every day for the public and have done no wrong. Its disgusting and you should be ashamed.

I feel sorry for you that you are so miserable with your own life that you want your neighbors to be harmed without reason.

A. They would be laid off. Not fired.
B. If the administration chooses pet projects over people that is their choice. Not ours. I will not support unlimited taxation just because of a guilt trip. Govt budgets have been growing faster than population and inflation.

C. You should really seek anger management assistance.