Exponentioal Cost of College!! Really?

[slapshot]

damn, I am going to agree with you again.....

while I appreciate Slapshot's professional qualifications, I'll disagree with his assessment of people who take advantage of UMUC's programs...

I completed all three of my degrees through UMUC. When I graduated from high school I had SAT's good enough to get into Hopkins, Loyola, Western Maryland, UMBC and Gettysburg. What I didn't have was the money or the drive at the time to be successful in college. I managed to navigate 12 years of elementary, junior high and high school by doing the minimum even though I was capable of more (see my SAT's).

I was in my 30's before I started at UMUC. I worked full time and carried a 12-18 credit course load during the undergrad studies. Graduate programs designed for people who work are limited to one 6 hour class per semester... Many of the people I met in my MBA and Cybersecurity classes where people with pretty good academics and work experience..

this inferior student can at least spell atrophy correctly...

Re: "I had SAT's good enough to get into Hopkins, Loyola, Western Maryland, UMBC and Gettysburg."

LOL. You're comparing Hopkins to those other schools. Ok. If I was a Hopkins gad, I would be very insulted. Too funny.


That's great that you can spell atrophy correctly, or maybe, just maybe your engineering/software spell checker can spell it correctly ....but most UMUC students would : (1) not qualify for admission into UMd's College of Engineering, and (2) for the few that did, most of those would get eaten alive in grad school (UMd engineering/full time).

Enjoy your UMUC degree. If it serves you well, then that's all that maters. But academically, there are differences. Fact.

[can you hear me now!]

That's great that you can spell atrophy correctly, or, that your engineering created spell checker can spell it correctly ....but most UMUC students would : (1) not qualify for admission into UMd's College of Engineering, and (2) for the few that did, most of those would get eaten alive in grad school (UMd engineering/full time).

Enjoy your UMUC degree. If it serves you well, then that's all that maters. But academically, there are differences. Fact.

I'm not arguing that...in fact I know there are differences...I am arguing your view of how successful some of us non-campus attending students would be in a "real" graduate setting....blanket statements are a bad thing as is intellectual snobbery....

[slapshot]

I'm not arguing that...in fact I know there are differences...I am arguing your view of how successful some of us non-campus attending students would be in a "real" graduate setting....blanket statements are a bad thing as is intellectual snobbery....

As I said in a prior post - there are exceptions to everything.

Nevertheless, I will speak in generalities about things I know quite a bit about. And you? We've established you know how to spell, and had SATs good enough to get into UMBC or Western Maryland.... but what actual real graduate level experiences have you had, as a full time grad student? How do you comment on things you have no relevant experience with, unless you've tried it.

I'm glad it's working for you, and it can work for many working folks. But to say there are not significant academic differences and qualifications, is simply being naive. I have a graduate student right now that got his MS from Hopkins night in an engineering discipline. He's now in the UMd PhD program. His exact words to me is that the MS night program at Hopkins "was a joke". He easily skated through that program with all A's. He's struggling here at UMd. Many night programs have lower entrance qualifications, go at a slower pace to accommodate their working students, and in general, set the bar lower than we would in a full time/day engineering program. It is, what it is.

As far as intellectual snobbery - sorry if I hurt your feeling, but these are my experiences and observations. I've been in academia for over 20 years. My experiences in dealing with, working with students from all kinds of backgrounds. Would it make you feel better if I lied and agreed with you? Then that would be intellectual dishonesty...which, by most academic standards, is far worse. So, I'll take the intellectual snobbery characterization. I can live with it.

[Balt Observer]

Yes, they have student visas.

The US born students are also very good...my experience is (generalization, I know): US born grad students better in experimental things. Foreign grad students better in math and theoretical stuff. Also, and true at the undergrad level as well - US born students tend to have a broader interest in things when in school (eg, sports, parties, politics, clubs, etc)...than do the foreign students. My Freshman roommate at Cal was straight from Taiwan. Never been to the US before...yet, he spoke pretty good English. While most on our floor were getting to know each other and look for girls and parties...he was off to the library to read up on his classes. This was a full week before classes had even started. Most foreign engineering students are VERY focused on their academics. They take no prisoners when it comes to getting A's.

That's been my experience as well. If US students in general were that serious, the US would be better overall in so many different ways.

[Balt Observer]

damn, I am going to agree with you again.....

while I appreciate Slapshot's professional qualifications, I'll disagree with his assessment of people who take advantage of UMUC's programs...

I completed all three of my degrees through UMUC. When I graduated from high school I had SAT's good enough to get into Hopkins, Loyola, Western Maryland, UMBC and Gettysburg. What I didn't have was the money or the drive at the time to be successful in college. I managed to navigate 12 years of elementary, junior high and high school by doing the minimum even though I was capable of more (see my SAT's).

I was in my 30's before I started at UMUC. I worked full time and carried a 12-18 credit course load during the undergrad studies. Graduate programs designed for people who work are limited to one 6 hour class per semester... Many of the people I met in my MBA and Cybersecurity classes where people with pretty good academics and work experience..

this inferior student can at least spell atrophy correctly...

I agree with you wholeheartedly. In my experience, older students with work and life experiences outperform the younger, inexperienced, and frequently less serious students. However, if you factor in the foreign students that slapshot was talking about, those guys pretty much beat everyone for dedication and focus.

[johnpolitics]

As far as "name schools" it depends on your career and life path. In Maryland a degree from UMBC, Stevenson, McDaniel might be impressive, but in another state it is BFD. In Upstate NY their is a private Catholic College, St. John Fisher, very good reputation, but outside of Upstate NY it is just another college.
I graduated for UB.... University at Buffalo, but when I say I graduated for UB in Maryland people are impressed.
And I went to UB for grad school because it was cheaper than the University of Rochester which was 20 minutes from my house.

[buzzthefuzz]

I'd be curious as to what her major is.

Entitlement 101.

[dogstarman]

Speaking as someone who has been a traditional grad student in the 90's and as someone who has taken "night courses" at JHU EP as a working professional (10 years into my career), yes, of course the traditional programs are more selective and challenging and "mean more".

However, that does not diminish the value of night courses. They're just designed for a different purpose. I did them because I wanted to review some very specific subject-matter related to my work and night courses were excellent for that purpose. I can't say that such programs would be worth-it for getting a degree, but they are far better than "online learning" if one has limited options.

I strongly recommend full, semester-long night courses from real universities to people who are motivated. The other popular option is week-long seminars by outfits such as "learning tree". I have done one of those too, and think they are a waste of time (and money-- they actually cost about the same as a semester-long night course at a real university).

[ivanbalt]

Enjoy your UMUC degree. If it serves you well, then that's all that maters. But academically, there are differences. Fact.

And ultimately, what do those "differences" mean in the actual real world?

[crabsnbeer]

And ultimately, what do those "differences" mean in the actual real world?

If you are not an academic? Nothing. Maybe a better chance to get a response to a resume.

But once you are working it is all about how a person works. I will take a hard working dedicated employee with an online degree (or none at all) over an entitled punk with a fancy sheepskin.

[slapshot]

And ultimately, what do those "differences" mean in the actual real world?

Answered by Crabs.

To add to his comments:

Once an applicant has that first job and established himself with a reputable work record, the "where did you go to school" question becomes less important. But especially in today's tough job market, getting any kind of edge on other applicants, such as having matriculated from a top university, as opposed to a night or online program, can make or break getting that first job offer.

As the old saying goes, "alma maters".

It matters not only in name and reputation that the university has, but it also matters because top universities, and particulalry, top state schools (ie, large) have a LOT of alumni that are positioned out in the corporate world, and may be in a position to help the new grad from their school.

[Passerine]

Answered by Crabs.

To add to his comments:

Once an applicant has that first job and established himself with a reputable work record, the "where did you go to school" question becomes less important. But especially in today's tough job market, getting any kind of edge on other applicants, such as having matriculated from a top university, as opposed to a night or online program, can make or break getting that first job offer.

Right, but again, there are opportunities all over the place for people to get job training while they are undergraduates: unpaid internships especially help people to meet important figures in their field while building their skill set.

It matters not only in name and reputation that the university has, but it also matters because top universities, and particulalry, top state schools (ie, large) have a LOT of alumni that are positioned out in the corporate world, and may be in a position to help the new grad from their school.

Perhaps, but there are a lot of smaller schools that are home to people who have made a big impact on their field. UMBC in particular comes to mind. In my opinion, it's much more who you know (and how well you present yourself in writing and in interviews) than which school you went to.

[Ravens2006]

VA Tech was my #1 choice out of high school, by a landslide. Got accepted. Then the financial aid letters arrived, and as difficult a choice as it was, I opted for a much more cost-friendly path. Graduated from Towson, and have done just great in my career.

A lot of folks don't seem to have to "situational awareness" or the understanding of basic finances to balance their ultimate goals with early-life debt.

When I went through grad courses at Towson, about half my professors also worked at / taught the same courses at JHU. Had a friend who wanted the "JHU name" on his grad degree, so he wouldn't even consider Towson. After a few courses, he decided the evening commute and the cost were too much. To each his own.

As for present day, I know of one colleague that recently got her master's from JHU and is working on her PHD. With as much respect as I can feign here... she's about as bright as a black hole. I've come across more than a few other professionals with schools like JHU, Carnegie Mellon, Penn, Cornell, etc. on their resumes who I would NEVER in a million years give a job too now. So in some fairness... once you're on the other side of the table and you see how SOME (not ALL) graduates of "prestigious" schools portray themselves professionally... the name of the school no longer matters nearly as much as the face-to-face.