Md. High Court Strikes Down DNA Collection At Arrest

[Wizard777]

http://Md. high court strikes down D...tion at arrest

Maryland's highest court on Tuesday blocked police in most cases from collecting DNA samples when they arrest suspects in violent crimes and burglaries, dealing a blow to one of Gov. Martin O'Malley's signature initiatives.

The Court of Appeals ruled 5-2 that the state violated Alonzo Jay King Jr.'s constitutional rights by using DNA evidence taken from him after a 2009 assault arrest. That sample led to his conviction in a six-year-old rape case, but the court said it also ran afoul of protections against unreasonable searches without a warrant. The judges ordered that King's rape case be sent back to Wicomico County Circuit Court for a new trial.

O'Malley and law enforcement officials said the decision would set back the state's crime-fighting efforts, but civil liberties advocates and defense attorneys called it a victory for individual freedoms. The state can still collect DNA after convictions, and experts said the court's ruling is unlikely to reverse other convictions.

[Wizard777]

This was a good decision by high court. It's good to see that they do not follow SCOTUS in interpreting the Fourth Amendment to the point of actually restoring the Writ of Assisstance.

If this is such an important crime fighting tool. Then why not collect the DNA at birth? That way O'Malley's grandchildren can have their DNA sitting in a police database just waiting for them to grow up and commit their first crime.

[ChiefWiggum]

I think it is more reasoable to take it from a suspect in the Criminal Justice system than at birth?

[yuca]

They might as well ban fingerprint collection at arrest as well.

I'll never understand this state's f***ed up judicial system. If you don't want your DNA collected, don't commit a felony!

[Wizard777]

They might as well ban fingerprint collection at arrest as well.

I'll never understand this state's f***ed up judicial system. If you don't want your DNA collected, don't commit a felony!

What if you didn't commit a felony? If they take your DNA at arrest instead of after conviction. They still have your DNA even though you have been complettely exonerated of the crime in court.

It would also be the end of obtaining a search warrant to collect DNA from a suspect. All a cop would have to do is arrest you on a bogus charge, collect your DNA and then drop the bogus charge against you. Your DNA stays in the system.

[yuca]

What if you didn't commit a felony? If they take your DNA at arrest instead of after conviction. They still have your DNA even though you have been complettely exonerated of the crime in court.

It would also be the end of obtaining a search warrant to collect DNA from a suspect. All a cop would have to do is arrest you on a bogus charge, collect your DNA and then drop the bogus charge against you. Your DNA stays in the system.

One day, collecting DNA will be as standard as collecting fingerprints. I think they should be treated the same way. In fact, DNA is much more reliable than a fingerprint.

People are arrested, then fingerprinted. As far as I know, the police do not throw away the fingerprint file if you're found "not guilty."

As for bogus arrests, those happen. Then again, there is that whole "probable cause" concept.

[Wizard777]

One day, collecting DNA will be as standard as collecting fingerprints. I think they should be treated the same way. In fact, DNA is much more reliable than a fingerprint.

People are arrested, then fingerprinted. As far as I know, the police do not throw away the fingerprint file if you're found "not guilty."

As for bogus arrests, those happen. Then again, there is that whole "probable cause" concept.

Maryland's High Court unlike SCOTUS knows the Fourth Amendment is supposed to preserve freedom by limiting government power. SCOTUS seems to view the Fourth Amendment as some BS excuse for depriving the government of the absolute power it rightly deserves. They contemplate the Fourth Amendment as if our Founding Fathers somehow intended for every person that commits a crime to be caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and beyond. That's why ALL our founding fathers went back to England to stand trial for their crimes. They weren't pety crooks. They were commiting high crimes (Major Felonies.) In fact they had commited the highest crime of the land, treason against the Crown. Our Forefathers were criminal master minds that pulled off the biggest heist in all of history. They actually stole 13 colony's from a King. That's not where their crime spree ended. Then they started stealing land from the Native Americans. They did much of that by commiting Genocide.

So yeah, I can see where SCOTUS would think that our Founding Fathers would take an extreme hardline against crime. Just think If the Founding fathers intended a Prima Facie reading of the Constitution instead of interpreting the Constitution to the point that "no" means sure go right ahead and do it! On a prima facie reading anyone going to jail for anything would involve a miracle. That sounds more like the intentions of our high crime commiting Founding Fathers. America is a nation that was founded by criminals. Kinda like Australia.

[Saticon3]

They might as well ban fingerprint collection at arrest as well.

Exactly, I don't see the difference- photos, hell, even names and all other identifiers as well.

Seems to me dna is merely a more sophisticated identification means, and we've been collecting & storing more rudimentary identification types---- the dna would even help the accused, as it can rule suspects out as well as in.

[Wizard777]

Exactly, I don't see the difference- photos, hell, even names and all other identifiers as well.

Seems to me dna is merely a more sophisticated identification means, and we've been collecting & storing more rudimentary identification types---- the dna would even help the accused, as it can rule suspects out as well as in.

Why not take the DNA at birth? While were at it. Why not make the parents give their DNA to prove they are the parents before the hospital gives them the baby to take home. No more baby mix ups. Sir we can release the baby to your wife's custody because we know she's the mother. But you can't have any custody of the baby because you're not the baby's father. Oh, that's why we can't do it.

[Wizard777]

Exactly, I don't see the difference

Leopold's dirty tricks detail is going access one of two databases to retrieve information on you to give to Leopold. You get to choose which database they access and retrieve information from.

1) They can access the fingerprint database, retrieve your fingerprints, give them to Leopold and Leopold sends your fingerprints to your insurance company.

2) They can access the DNA database, retrieve your DNA profile, give it to Leopold who then sends your DNA profile to your insurance company.

So which would you prefer your insurance company have? Your fingerprints or your DNA?

[yuca]

Leopold's dirty tricks detail is going access one of two databases to retrieve information on you to give to Leopold. You get to choose which database they access and retrieve information from.

1) They can access the fingerprint database, retrieve your fingerprints, give them to Leopold and Leopold sends your fingerprints to your insurance company.

2) They can access the DNA database, retrieve your DNA profile, give it to Leopold who then sends your DNA profile to your insurance company.

So which would you prefer your insurance company have? Your fingerprints or your DNA?

What do insurance companies have to do with anything?

[Wizard777]

What do insurance companies have to do with anything?

I would explain it to you. But that would go into Advanced Corruption and you're already having enough problems with Integrity 101.

[Wizard777]

Dayum! This could get nasty.

Maryland law enforcement agencies still collecting DNA samples

Police around Maryland said Wednesday that they would continue to collect DNA samples when suspects are arrested for violent crimes and burglaries, despite a recent ruling by the state's top court limiting the practice.

Several law enforcement agencies, including the state Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services, were awaiting a decision on whether the state will appeal before they make changes. Gov. Martin O'Malley, Baltimore's mayor and a chorus of state and local officials called for an appeal of what they see as a crucial tool that has linked suspects to other, unsolved crimes.

Opponents of the practice said the decision to continue taking samples shows disregard for the Court of Appeals and the laws the police are sworn to uphold.

This where it gets nasty. The Police are now conducting unlawful warrantless searches and seizures. Under English Common Law Marylanders have the right to resonably resist an unlawful warrantless search or seizure. The courts can have the last laugh in this.

Prosecutor: Your honor the defendant is charged with assaulying a police officer while trying to collect his DNA upon arrest and.......

Judge: Stop right there! The officer was conducting an unlawful warrantless search and seizure. The Defendant exercized his right to reasonably resist that unlawful warrantless search and seizure. Case dismissed. The prosecutor is to refer this case to IAD for investigation.

This is without even going into the indirect contempt issue. The High Court should issue bench warrants or summonses, depending upon how nice they want to play, for every executive authority in the state and their head of police. The Governor, the Mayors and County Executives hauled before the High Court to explain why the Executive Branches are over throwing the authority of the court. If the Justices are not satisfied with the answer. Then throw them all in jail on contempt and hold them until every police department in the state has gone through their DNA database, removed every DNA profile collected upon arrest, and deliver it to the court to be destroyed. Any officer continuing to collect DNA upon arrest should be held on contempt indefinitely.

[Wizard777]

Art. 26. That all warrants, without oath or affirmation, to search suspected places, or to seize any person or property, are grievous and oppressive; and all general warrants to search suspected places, or to apprehend suspected persons, without naming or describing the place, or the person in special, are illegal, and ought not to be granted.

What this law amounts to is an open search and seizure warrant without probable cause. If the police arrest someone for drinking and driving. If that person refuses to a breathalyser or blood test the cop has to get a warrant to seize their blood to be tested. A persons DNA is even more precious and revealing than their blood and therefore should be afforded even greater protection than a persons blood.

I'm sure the people that passed this law did it with the best of intentions. But they also have to remember that the greatest of atrocities are always commited with the best of intentions. Look at Assad in Syria and his good intentions. He's fighting terrorists trying to take over Syria. He should be getting medals for his dedication to the war on terrorism. Bush & Cheney thought torture was an invaluable tool against terrorism. As it turned out Sugar Free Cookies were far more effective in gaining information. What about Adolph Hitler? He was just trying to create that perfect world full of perfect people. How noble of him. Look at the inquistions and witch trials. They were just trying to save people from eternal damnation and the tortures of hell. According to Bush & Cheney that should have the heathens revealing all their terrorism plans to Satan. Lets hope Satan has sugar free cookies. So when these best of intentions go to hell in a hand basket. The lawmakers shouldn't expect Marylanders to speak as nicely about them as they do Assad, Bush & Cheney, Hitler, Torquemada or Satan. I don't think there is going to be any sugar free cookies either.

I'll tell you what. If this is so harmless and an effective tool. Let's make it even more effective. Let's have every ellected official and government employee in the state put their DNA in that database. They don't have anything to hide do they?

[Wizard777]

I can gear it now. Ah Wiz your crazy. Your talking Atrocities, Hitler and the Holocaust. What in the hell does any of that have to do with collecting DNA from people arrested for violent crimes and burglaries?


Okay lets look at where we've come from to get an indication of where we're going to. We started off on top of the slippery slope just wanting to collect DNA from convicted sex offenders. Because when governments do atrocious things they go after the people no one likes and no one will defend. Who's going to stand up and fight for the rights of child molestors and rapists. Then they slowly but surely over decades expand those laws until they cover everyone. We've come so far down that slippery slope Maryland now collects DNA from people that have only been arrested for certain crimes. They will eventually expand those crimes they collect DNA on at arrest. Then they'll want to gather DNA without a warrant from people that are merely suspected of certain crimes. They expand those crimes also. You see where this is going.

Since we're willing to say screw you to tha warrant requirement is the US an Maryland Constitutions. Why not also repeal the law that prohibits the use of partial matches. It'll be an even better tool that will allow us to catch even more criminals. Because we can not only catch the person giving the DNA but also their family. Your idoit cousin that you hate and never talk to gets arrested. They take his DNA and put it in the database. It comes back as a partial match. That means the person wanted on that crime is a male family member. Now the police are knocking on the doors of your uncle, your father, your brother and you wanting DNA. Once all the testing is done your brother is in jail.

But this is being looked at as the ultimate crime prevention tool. It's called "Criminal Genetic Traits and Preventative Detention." So the FOP Legislative Committee goes to the Maryland Legislature and asks them to criminalize certain genetic traits known to be possesed by criminals. If you are found to be in possession of those gentic traits the police may detain you indefinitely to prevent you from commiting the crimes associated with those genetic traits. Welcome to a perfect world full of perfect people and welcome back to Eugenics Mr. Hitler. The Criminal Genetic Traits and Preventative Detention would be the modern day Nuremburg Laws.

Lets make one thing perfectly clear right here and now. There will be no cookies of any kind in hell for any of you.

But why try to stop that right here and now by respecting the Constitutions and saying no to warrantless searches and seizures of the person. Let wait until we hear this on the news.

Moved by the understanding that the purity of American DNA is essential to the further existence of the people of Maryland, and inspired by the uncompromising determination to safeguard the future of the people of Maryland, the Maryland Legislature has unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith: Uh huh.......

[yeah]

damm dude are you talking to urself? lol no way anyone is gonna read all that text

[Wizard777]

damm dude are you talking to urself? lol no way anyone is gonna read all that text

I hope the state does appeal this. Because it will give the Lawyers the opportunity to straughten out a lapse in Constitutional logic that the high court has created. They seem to under the impression that Probable cause is needed to conduct a search or seizure. That is patently false. Probable Cause is what is needed to obtain a warrant. A warrant is what is needed to conduct a search or seizure or persons, houses, papers, and effects. Keeping in mind that the court still holds that ANY search or seizure conducted without a warrant is per se unreasonable.

The lapse in constutional logic is that SCOTUS has the authority to create doctrines of exegent circumstances. That to is patently false. The fourth amendment specifically states, "shall not be violated." That instruction includes the supreme court it's self. They may not violate the fourth amendment with doctrines of exegent circumstances. That is indeed what those doctrines do. SCOTUS is not above the US Constitution. They may not so much as bend it to their will or purpose. It is their responsibility to ensure that the Government delivers on the freedoms and protections the document promises to every generation. Article III places SCOTUS under the US Constitution. The only body that has the Constitutional authority to alter the US Constitution or it protections in any way is Congress with ratification by the states. So any doctrine of exegent circumstance from Terry to Carrol and beyond are illegal violation of the fourth. If SCOTUS does not abandon this illegal power grab to alter the protections of the Constution. Then Congress needs to impeach the entire court and the President can replace them with Justices that will obey and uphold the US Constiution that shapes and forms America instead of treating it like a piece of clay to be shaped and formed by SCOTUS.

[Saticon3]

Leopold's dirty tricks detail is going access one of two databases to retrieve information on you to give to Leopold. You get to choose which database they access and retrieve information from.

1) They can access the fingerprint database, retrieve your fingerprints, give them to Leopold and Leopold sends your fingerprints to your insurance company.

2) They can access the DNA database, retrieve your DNA profile, give it to Leopold who then sends your DNA profile to your insurance company.

So which would you prefer your insurance company have? Your fingerprints or your DNA?

I would prefer 3.)
If Leopold or some other person illegally accesses a restricted for official law enforcement purposes only data base for unofficial, non bona-fide reasons, that he be investigated, prossecuted, and open for civil suits by the aggrieved.

Hay, that's just what happened!
No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Wizard777]

I would prefer 3.)
If Leopold or some other person illegally accesses a restricted for official law enforcement purposes only data base for unofficial, non bona-fide reasons, that he be investigated, prossecuted, and open for civil suits by the aggrieved.

Hay, that's just what happened!
No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

The potential for abuse is horrifying. This is not the combination to a safe. Which btw you need a warrant to access. This is the combination to you. Once I have your DNA I can have a God like knowledge of you. I can find out things about you that not even you know. Because I have the recipe God used to greate you. I find it to be alarming that the contents of my safe has more legal protections than the contents of my DNA.

As for what our Forefather would have thought of this. I think they not only would have prohibited the government from using DNA for anything. They would have also burnt you at the stake for witchcraft and soccery.

[ChiefWiggum]

I would prefer 3.)
If Leopold or some other person illegally accesses a restricted for official law enforcement purposes only data base for unofficial, non bona-fide reasons, that he be investigated, prossecuted, and open for civil suits by the aggrieved.

Hay, that's just what happened!
No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children. Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it. Hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the Bath water!"