Reverse discrimination?

[KingSolomon]

I'm hip!

I guess I should have asked the 2 geniuses what "their" definitions were for the word "involved" as it relates to raising children. Based on the dictionaries definition "involved" as it relates to raising children means "committed" or "engaged" which is completely irrelevant to the issue I raised regarding 60% of black children being raised fatherless. Although it doesn't matter to the discussion just because a male lives in the home with their kid or is married to the mother, doesn't mean the father is involved in the kids life or committed/engaged in raising the child.

Bottom line still remains, I've provided more than enough links and book references to prove my points and the 2 semantic [personal attack deleted] have nothing but their own erroneous opinions!

@Bmore_Ken, it's not my definition of fatherless, it's the dictionary definition....try reading it!

[KingSolomon]

@Sigmalady: I would also direct you to the dictionary as well!

[bmore_ken]

No,. your statement is irrelevant, just another Red Herring.

It's not a red herring it was an independent thought. Bigots like you think your own shiite doesn't stink, so it was a reminder

[bmore_ken]

@Bmore_Ken, it's not my definition of fatherless, it's the dictionary definition....try reading it!

Who decided the dictionary definition from one online site is the basis of all statistics on the matter? King Solomon?

[KingSolomon]

@Bmore_Ken: so now you're challenging the dictionary definition. ROFL@U, so I take it you don't have anything to collectively refute all the links I provided. Hmmm, but yet you require links of others and still can't provide any to prove your point. SMH, that's the same mentality as the birthers....

[Baltimatt]

One of KingSolomon's earlier links

Additionally, nearly 60 percent of black children are raised in fatherless households. Studies show that children raised without married parents, and fundamentally balanced families, are more likely to engage in antisocial behavior.

I read stuff like this and think, Wait a Minute. Are they making unmarried parents the equivalent of fatherless households? How many parents live together without being married? Would that be a fatherless household (I'd say no), and and out of wedlock birth (I'd say yes). I think there are too many terms and statistics being tossed around without any clear and consistent definitions. That is mostly what I object too, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ken does, too.

The problem is children with uninvovled parent(s). It's more pronounced in the black community, and it's mostly fathers, but if you're one of those kids, it doesn't matter what you or your parents are. Maybe if these churches put as much effort into fighting this as they do into keeping involved but same-sex parents from marrying each other, we might see some progress.

[KingSolomon]

@Baltimatt: The answer is no, unmarried statistically in defined as unwed or born out of wedlock. The language you and Ken are using (uninvolved) is not used in any type of survey or statistics gathering because ultimately when it comes to raising children, being "involved" means committed or engaged and there's no way to quantify how involved a parent is raising their child whether they live with them or not.

Ultimately you and Ken are engaging in what is known as a war on words and as I previously pointed out the crisis is so bad in black communities that doing what you two are doing is fruitless. I'm very much "involved" in this epidemic on numerous levels but clearly neither of you have truly engaged this issue otherwise I seriously doubt you'd be waging such a tremendous war on words about the stats provided.

[Baltimatt]

No, "involved" may not be easily quantified or statistically measured, but that's what the key is. Parents can be married, live separately, and never get around to getting a divorce or waiting years to do so, while the kids are neglected. Or they can be unmarried but living together and both involved every day in their children's lives. And there are all levels in between. But when you insist that a fatherless home is the same things as a fatherless child, it makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about.

[Jeebus]

It's not a red herring it was an independent thought. Bigots like you think your own shiite doesn't stink, so it was a reminder

The cowards way out - yell "Bigot!" or "Racist!" and run and hide instead of actually addressing the problems.

Typical, but not unexpected.

[Jeebus]

No, "involved" may not be easily quantified or statistically measured, but that's what the key is. Parents can be married, live separately, and never get around to getting a divorce or waiting years to do so, while the kids are neglected. Or they can be unmarried but living together and both involved every day in their children's lives. And there are all levels in between. But when you insist that a fatherless home is the same things as a fatherless child, it makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about.

Don't be so naive, Baltimatt.

Unless you believe that those children born to the the inner city teen-aged baby mommies are actually being supported by the sperm donors with money, time, nurturing, and commitment representative of a positive male role model.

Yeah, right.

Brooklyn Bridge is also for sale, you interested?

[KingSolomon]

No, "involved" may not be easily quantified or statistically measured, but that's what the key is. Parents can be married, live separately, and never get around to getting a divorce or waiting years to do so, while the kids are neglected. Or they can be unmarried but living together and both involved every day in their children's lives. And there are all levels in between. But when you insist that a fatherless home is the same things as a fatherless child, it makes me wonder if you know what you are talking about.

How about this, become a state certified mentor and you'll see for yourself exactly what fatherless means! If the fathers who aren't living in the home with the children were "involved" there would be no need for outside mentors. I've seen this epidemic for more than a decade when I first became a state certified mentor and more times than not the father-absent home meant either the mother didn't know who the father was or the father wasn't "involved" in the kids life at all. You and ken are basically using the term "involved" as the rule instead of it being the exception. The rule by and far is just as I've been explaining for the past 2 days.

[KingSolomon]

Ultimately what's driving the fatherless statistic up so high in black communities isn't the out-of-wedlock children by black men who have 1 or 2 kids and are actively involved raising the child it's the sperm-donor who has 7, 8, 9, 10, 14 etc. kids who doesn't work a steady job and could care less about supporting the child financially and/or emotionally. And yes, this is far more prevalent in black communities than any other race in the U.S.

[Baltimatt]

Don't be so naive, Baltimatt.

Unless you believe that those children born to the the inner city teen-aged baby mommies are actually being supported by the sperm donors with money, time, nurturing, and commitment representative of a positive male role model.

Yeah, right.

Brooklyn Bridge is also for sale, you interested?

I'm not saying it's the norm, but don't think it never happens.

How about this, become a state certified mentor and you'll see for yourself exactly what fatherless means! If the fathers who aren't living in the home with the children were "involved" there would be no need for outside mentors. I've seen this epidemic for more than a decade when I first became a state certified mentor and more times than not the father-absent home meant either the mother didn't know who the father was or the father wasn't "involved" in the kids life at all. You and ken are basically using the term "involved" as the rule instead of it being the exception. The rule by and far is just as I've been explaining for the past 2 days.

Good for you, but in that position, you are going to see the families that need the help, the cases where the father is absent. And I agree those situations happen way too often.

Ultimately what's driving the fatherless statistic up so high in black communities isn't the out-of-wedlock children by black men who have 1 or 2 kids and are actively involved raising the child it's the sperm-donor who has 7, 8, 9, 10, 14 etc. kids who doesn't work a steady job and could care less about supporting the child financially and/or emotionally. And yes, this is far more prevalent in black communities than any other race in the U.S.

Yeah, my "son" was fathered by one of those. Maybe 16 kids with who know how many women. Then his mom was locked up and when she got out, she went to live in another city. She had five kids with three different men. He's 23 now and has a lot of disadvantages, but numerous times he's said he doesn't know where he'd be if he hadn't come live with me. It's not been easy, though.

[bmore_ken]

How about this, become a state certified mentor and you'll see for yourself exactly what fatherless means! If the fathers who aren't living in the home with the children were "involved" there would be no need for outside mentors.

I never said there weren't fathers who are un involved in their children's lives. Hell I have an 11 y/o in my house who's never seen his real father(white father by the way Jeebus) I said there's no existing data that can prove that it's 60% as you state as a fact