Starting pitching

[Steveg85321]

Why can't there be a reasonable discussion of what may be ahead in the future without people being admonished to simply enjoy what is happening now?

'Boy this canoe ride down the river sure is great, never mind that distant roaring noise.'

I have no problem with people enjoying it, but I think this is a troubling statistic that warrants discussion, don't you?

I didn't mean to imply it shouldn't be discussed. I actually appreciate very much to be informed of relevant trends that more knowledgeable folks know about that I don't. I just prefer not to let that distant roaring noise keep me from going out on the river.

While logic and history tells us that the best players tend to win most of the time, the real beauty of sports is that is not always true. Sometimes the less talented underdog comes through, with heart, desire, chemistry, guts - call it whatever - and that is what is really special about sports. It is a tougher row to hoe in baseball because there is so many games, but it still happens...

[gottselig2004]

I have no problem with people enjoying it, but I think this is a troubling statistic that warrants discussion, don't you?

I dont think anyone other than Hector and TM think we are gonna win 95 games...The point im trying to make is that we knew basically they type of production we were expecting this year from our starters and right now they have exceeded that production.

with that in mind it makes no sense to belittle them knowing they are better than anyone imagined.

Great expectations

[Jimmy Jazz]

In 42 games, O's starters have thrown 251.1 innings.

Around the league (IP, starters used, games played):

LAA: 267.1 (5) 42
TOR: 267 (6) 42
CHW: 263.1 (7) 42
SEA: 262.2 (5) 43
TEX: 261.2 (6) 42
TB: 254.1 (6) 42
OAK: 251.2 (6) 42
CLE: 250 (6) 41
NYY: 239.1 (7) 41
BOS: 239 (6) 41
DET: 239 (6) 41
MIN: 213.1 (8) 41
KC: 204.1 (9) 40 games

So the O's aren't doing terrible in that department but it could be better.

[85Knight]

I elicited quite a reaction on the game thread when I stated that our starting pitching was not very good. Well, take a look.

Hammel: 3.12 ERA, 1.14 WHIP
Chen: 3.35 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
Arrieta: 4.72 ERA, 1.21 WHIP
Hunter: 4.78 ERA, 1.33 WHIP
Matusz: 5.36 ERA, 1.69 WHIP

Hammel has been good, but is injured and coming back down to Earth. If we get a 4.00 ERA out of Chen by the end of the year, we'll be fortunate. Arrieta is maddeningly inconsistent, Hunter will hover around a 5.00 ERA all year, and Matusz is lucky every time he gets out of an inning without allowing a crooked number. Out of 42 games this year, the Orioles have had 21 total quality starts from their starters. 50%.

That is, frankly, terrible. 50% quality starts is what you'd expect from a good 4th or 5th starter, which means that collectively, that's how the starters are faring.

Bottom line is that there are 2, possibly 3 starters on this staff that would be considered a number 3 on most good staffs, and maybe 1 that could be considered a number 2. Hunter is a fringe number 5, and Matusz would be a number 6 or 7, if such a thing existed. With the bullpen coming back down to earth, as everyone knew was going to happen, and having pitched more innings than any team in baseball, the wins as they've been coming are just not going to be sustainable. Having a starter go between 5 and 6 innings and relying on an exhausted pen to go 3-4 innings every game isn't how teams continue success over the long haul, and it's this reason that I feel what we're seeing isn't going to last.

Flame away, but if you look at the numbers objectively, you know what I'm saying is the truth.

You're continuing to look for reasons that the Orioles will fold instead of looking for ways that this team can improve as the season goes on. Teams that are in contention are constantly looking for ways to improve as the season warrants. Do you honestly think the Orioles aren't aware of some of the things that have happened in the past when we were in this position? You're running around yelling the sky is falling instead of looking at ways the team can improve going forward. I can only hope the O's aren't doing the same thing.

First off these stats are meaningless without a comparison to the other teams in the league both this year and in previous years. Others have already posted stats that suggest that our starter's innings pitched are on par with other teams around the league. Secondly, if a team has a strong bullpen then the starters aren't as pressed to go as deep into games as a team with a weaker bullpen. Of course you don't want to over tax the bullpen but I'm sure that the coaches under Showalter are keeping a watchful eye on managing the situation.

Sometimes you have to look at things from a different perspective instead of sitting around waiting for the worst to happen. Maybe under Showalter and Duquette this team is more proactive as the season goes on. This includes looking at the pitchers in the minor leagues as well as possible trades. Afterall those 2 weren't here in '05. There's no need to panic after every loss, it's a long season.

[hector]

I dont think anyone other than Hector and TM think we are gonna win 95 games...The point im trying to make is that we knew basically they type of production we were expecting this year from our starters and right now they have exceeded that production.

with that in mind it makes no sense to belittle them knowing they are better than anyone imagined.

Great expectations

EXCUSE ME - TM only predicted 94. I alone predicted 95 and that was well before TM issued his prediction.

[gottselig2004]

EXCUSE ME - TM only predicted 94. I alone predicted 95 and that was well before TM issued his prediction.

Duly noted with a bag of doritos....

[Bowie-Bruce]

You're continuing to look for reasons that the Orioles will fold instead of looking for ways that this team can improve as the season goes on. Teams that are in contention are constantly looking for ways to improve as the season warrants. Do you honestly think the Orioles aren't aware of some of the things that have happened in the past when we were in this position? You're running around yelling the sky is falling instead of looking at ways the team can improve going forward. I can only hope the O's aren't doing the same thing.

First off these stats are meaningless without a comparison to the other teams in the league both this year and in previous years. Others have already posted stats that suggest that our starter's innings pitched are on par with other teams around the league. Secondly, if a team has a strong bullpen then the starters aren't as pressed to go as deep into games as a team with a weaker bullpen. Of course you don't want to over tax the bullpen but I'm sure that the coaches under Showalter are keeping a watchful eye on managing the situation.

Sometimes you have to look at things from a different perspective instead of sitting around waiting for the worst to happen. Maybe under Showalter and Duquette this team is more proactive as the season goes on. This includes looking at the pitchers in the minor leagues as well as possible trades. Afterall those 2 weren't here in '05. There's no need to panic after every loss, it's a long season.

Very well said, and very certain to fall upon deaf ears.

[85Knight]

In 42 games, O's starters have thrown 251.1 innings.

Around the league (IP, starters used, games played):

LAA: 267.1 (5) 42
TOR: 267 (6) 42
CHW: 263.1 (7) 42
SEA: 262.2 (5) 43
TEX: 261.2 (6) 42
TB: 254.1 (6) 42
OAK: 251.2 (6) 42
CLE: 250 (6) 41
NYY: 239.1 (7) 41
BOS: 239 (6) 41
DET: 239 (6) 41
MIN: 213.1 (8) 41
KC: 204.1 (9) 40 games

So the O's aren't doing terrible in that department but it could be better.

So this means that the O's have 16 less innings pitched from our starters in 42 games than the best team in that department. That's an average of 0.38 innings per game and this is what Mr. Slide is in an uproar about. Wow!

[gottselig2004]

So this means that the O's have 16 less innings pitched from our starters in 42 games than the best team in that department. That's an average of 0.38 innings per game and this is what Mr. Slide is in an uproar about. Wow!

Stats are so easy to find and discredit..I have no doubt Slides will have one shortly.

I can think of a few but i actually love watching the Os so i will not mention them

[85Knight]

Stats are so easy to find and discredit..I have no doubt Slides will have one shortly.

I can think of a few but i actually love watching the Os so i will not mention them

There's always cause and effect when it comes to stats. You can never just look at the raw numbers and arbitrarily suggest that they're better or worse than another set of numbers. Teams with great offenses and avg. starters, great bullpens or games that are more close will naturally use their bullpens more than other teams. Also teams with more depth in their bullpen than in the starting rotation wiil tend to lean that direction in managing the games.

Our biggest issue seems to be all the extra inning games that we've played but there's not a lot you can do about that. Over the course of a season those things tend to even out anyway. It looks like we have a decent amount of off days coming up too which will help our bullpen.

[gottselig2004]

There's always cause and effect when it comes to stats. You can never just look at the raw numbers and arbitrarily suggest that they're better or worse than another set of numbers. Teams with great offenses, great bullpens or games that are more close will naturally use their bullpens more than other teams. Also teams with more depth in their bullpen than in the starting rotation wiil tend to lean that direction in managing the games.

Our biggest issue seems to be all the extra inning games that we've played but there's not a lot you can do about that. Over the course of a season those things tend to even out anyway. It looks like we have a decent amount of off days coming up too which will help our bullpen.

yeah those extras will definitely effect us but I would hope those experiences bring the team closer together when they have to dig down deep. I will continue to enjoy this season and hope the hard work this team has put in actually pays off for them.

the days off can only help the BP

[Slidemaster]

http://nicepickcowher.com/files/2012...so-meter1.jpeg

[Grindelwald]

Britton can't come back soon enough. And Arrieta needs to get it together. He's better than this.

[pitbull]

Again, like many Forum Members here said over the off-season, this is an Unproven Rotation that lacks an Ace, #2 starter & #3 starter.

[Slidemaster]

Don't worry guys, everything is fine! It's just a rough patch! The SP isn't a problem!

All is well. ALL IS WELL.

[Ravens2006]

But Britton is coming back! I'm sure he'll be different...

Not long ago Matusz and Arrieta were "untouchable". Once upon a time guys like Cabrera and Loewen were "untouchable". Ponson was once an "untouchable". Heck, Matt Riley was a Top 15 / Top 20 prospect for a couple years and labeled "untouchable".

All these "untouchables" that never get moved when they have value because it would be "crazy" to give up on 10+ years of potential for 3 or 4 years of proven... awesome results. Chances are they'd be much better off overall right now if they'd moved every single "untouchable" prospect they get for something proven and half-decent.

[durango46]

walks, walks, walks, walks and more walks.....it's sickening. No command whatsoever

These so called " young guns " sure can't hit the target.

Anybody else ready to stick a fork in them ?

[can you hear me now!]

You're continuing to look for reasons that the Orioles will fold instead of looking for ways that this team can improve as the season goes on. Teams that are in contention are constantly looking for ways to improve as the season warrants. Do you honestly think the Orioles aren't aware of some of the things that have happened in the past when we were in this position? You're running around yelling the sky is falling instead of looking at ways the team can improve going forward. I can only hope the O's aren't doing the same thing.

First off these stats are meaningless without a comparison to the other teams in the league both this year and in previous years. Others have already posted stats that suggest that our starter's innings pitched are on par with other teams around the league. Secondly, if a team has a strong bullpen then the starters aren't as pressed to go as deep into games as a team with a weaker bullpen. Of course you don't want to over tax the bullpen but I'm sure that the coaches under Showalter are keeping a watchful eye on managing the situation.

Sometimes you have to look at things from a different perspective instead of sitting around waiting for the worst to happen. Maybe under Showalter and Duquette this team is more proactive as the season goes on. This includes looking at the pitchers in the minor leagues as well as possible trades. Afterall those 2 weren't here in '05. There's no need to panic after every loss, it's a long season.

and your perspective is what given the last 2 months?

and while you are thinking about that-- how's that hope thing working for you?


you asked---> Do you honestly think the Orioles aren't aware of some of the things that have happened in the past when we were in this position? I can only hope the O's aren't doing the same thing.

and the roster moves prove what?