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Thread: College Offers

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesinsider View Post
    I understand you want to protect NLN because you're a CHC alum and they've been very good to CHC and are run by CHC people, but you have to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

    I hope you aren't suggesting that Lawrence Smith didn't know what he was talking about with his "preying on the weak" comment.

    I think, in time, enough coaches will get fed up with this shady side of off-season football to get the state organizations, and eventually the NFHS, to set common rules and regulations on 7-on-7s and who is allowed to coach the kids. I'd like to see all all-star 7-on-7 teams outlawed, and a common season for scholastic 7-on-7 set. It would start after spring sports end and be over by mid-July, with high school coaches allowed to coach their players in the 7-on-7s.

    I really don't care why they say they started their business, I could start any business I want for whatever reason and say I founded it for whatever purpose I want. Saying you founded something for a noble purpose doesn't mean your underlying intent is good.

    The only other thing I have to say about this is that there's the old saying that "if it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat, then it's a rat." Perception or not, NLN looks and smells an awful lot like a rat to me. I'd be willing to bet a majority of coaches in this state share my feelings on this matter.
    I tend to agree but until the MPSSAA and other state associations change rules and allow coaches to work with their kids in spring and off season or allow spring practice (particuarly during the recruiting session that just passed, seriousley coaches can go watch spring games in FLA) then the kids in the north east need an outlet to showcase them selves like the kids in FLA and TEX .

    Like I said if coaches could run 7on7s and coach kids for the combines and all then there would be no need for the middle man, until then this is good for the kids and helps level the field for them.. Remember a kid from Towson isnt competing gainst a kid from glenn burnie for scholarship dollars. He is competing against the kid from fla, tex, cali. etc.. NLN has helped in leveling that playing field.. IMO

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by harcohorns View Post
    Lets be straight here.. Private Schools are also a business. They are a business that relies on outcomes. Yes many are suviving on tradition but mnay of those traditional school have also adapted to the current climate of athletic or have folded.. Same as training and recruiting businesses rely on outcomes. Private schools charge based on their propensity of getting kids into better universities. That is also why they put so much focus on sports as well.. Sports is a huge recruiting tool for the privates.. The more kids in college or even better yet the NFL (Dematha) the more they can charge or in todays world stay in business... All pricates have a list of notable alumnists , the better that list the better the school is perceived... Training and recruiting programs are no different in that regard.
    You are right about every school to a degree and about the number of students sent to colleges, and the quality of those colleges, making a difference in how much you can charge. No one is going to pay 25-30k to send their kid to a school that isn't going to offer a 100% college matriculation rate.The main difference however, is that with a private school education, even if athletics doesn't work out, you still have a top-notch education to fall back on.

    My main beef with the training groups are the lack of regulations and the kind of people who can get involved and the reasons they get involved for.

    I think a good compromise would be to hold these men to the same standards as high school coaches, requiring them to get the same certifications and abide by the same code of conduct. I'm also in favor of all HS coaches and training groups having to take the NCAA Recruiting Rules test, it's about 30 mins, online, multiple choice, and free. This would remove any excuses of "I didn't know any better" from these trainers. That way you could hold the adults accountable instead of ruining the career of a 16/17/18-yr old kid.

    Of course, the simple and ideal solution that I have already stated is to just let the coaches work with their players in 7-on-7 for a summer season, but barring that, at least put some form of accountability on the trainers so that the kids don't lose everything while the guy who got them in trouble with the NCAA to begin with walks free.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesinsider View Post
    You are right about every school to a degree and about the number of students sent to colleges, and the quality of those colleges, making a difference in how much you can charge. No one is going to pay 25-30k to send their kid to a school that isn't going to offer a 100% college matriculation rate.The main difference however, is that with a private school education, even if athletics doesn't work out, you still have a top-notch education to fall back on.

    My main beef with the training groups are the lack of regulations and the kind of people who can get involved and the reasons they get involved for.

    I think a good compromise would be to hold these men to the same standards as high school coaches, requiring them to get the same certifications and abide by the same code of conduct. I'm also in favor of all HS coaches and training groups having to take the NCAA Recruiting Rules test, it's about 30 mins, online, multiple choice, and free. This would remove any excuses of "I didn't know any better" from these trainers. That way you could hold the adults accountable instead of ruining the career of a 16/17/18-yr old kid.

    Of course, the simple and ideal solution that I have already stated is to just let the coaches work with their players in 7-on-7 for a summer season, but barring that, at least put some form of accountability on the trainers so that the kids don't lose everything while the guy who got them in trouble with the NCAA to begin with walks free.
    agreed..

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesinsider View Post
    You are right about every school to a degree and about the number of students sent to colleges, and the quality of those colleges, making a difference in how much you can charge. No one is going to pay 25-30k to send their kid to a school that isn't going to offer a 100% college matriculation rate.The main difference however, is that with a private school education, even if athletics doesn't work out, you still have a top-notch education to fall back on.

    My main beef with the training groups are the lack of regulations and the kind of people who can get involved and the reasons they get involved for.

    I think a good compromise would be to hold these men to the same standards as high school coaches, requiring them to get the same certifications and abide by the same code of conduct. I'm also in favor of all HS coaches and training groups having to take the NCAA Recruiting Rules test, it's about 30 mins, online, multiple choice, and free. This would remove any excuses of "I didn't know any better" from these trainers. That way you could hold the adults accountable instead of ruining the career of a 16/17/18-yr old kid.

    Of course, the simple and ideal solution that I have already stated is to just let the coaches work with their players in 7-on-7 for a summer season, but barring that, at least put some form of accountability on the trainers so that the kids don't lose everything while the guy who got them in trouble with the NCAA to begin with walks free.
    I am pretty sure coaches can work with there kids for 7on7. My understanding of the rule is for every game you play you may have 1 practice. This was the WCAC rule. They have a window, I think it was from some date in May or June to July 7th.Then the kids got a break untill 2 adays.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesinsider View Post
    I understand you want to protect NLN because you're a CHC alum and they've been very good to CHC and are run by CHC people, but you have to look at it from an unbiased point of view.

    I hope you aren't suggesting that Lawrence Smith didn't know what he was talking about with his "preying on the weak" comment.

    I think, in time, enough coaches will get fed up with this shady side of off-season football to get the state organizations, and eventually the NFHS, to set common rules and regulations on 7-on-7s and who is allowed to coach the kids. I'd like to see all all-star 7-on-7 teams outlawed, and a common season for scholastic 7-on-7 set. It would start after spring sports end and be over by mid-July, with high school coaches allowed to coach their players in the 7-on-7s.

    I really don't care why they say they started their business, I could start any business I want for whatever reason and say I founded it for whatever purpose I want. Saying you founded something for a noble purpose doesn't mean your underlying intent is good.

    The only other thing I have to say about this is that there's the old saying that "if it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat, then it's a rat." Perception or not, NLN looks and smells an awful lot like a rat to me. I'd be willing to bet a majority of coaches in this state share my feelings on this matter.
    I was saying Smith's statement was a generalization and you are unjustly laying everything in NLN's lap. My point is that you have ZERO CLUE what is really going on outside of a heavily edited piece of hack journalism. You are guessing, making assumptions and some of your statements are extremely pompous. You can think whatever you want. As for your rat comment, give me a break. Get over yourself.

    BTW, how is it run by "CHC people"? Your viewpoint is far from objective.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92 Card View Post
    I was saying Smith's statement was a generalization and you are unjustly laying everything in NLN's lap. My point is that you have ZERO CLUE what is really going on outside of a heavily edited piece of hack journalism. You are guessing, making assumptions and some of your statements are extremely pompous. You can think whatever you want. As for your rat comment, give me a break. Get over yourself.

    BTW, how is it run by "CHC people"? Your viewpoint is far from objective.
    I don't even get what your trying to argue here, I really don't. NLN is an outside organization, and as a for-profit has to have more motivations than just the kids interests at heart.

    Believe me, the NLN situation has been discussed by many coaches in this state, and I'd say of the ones I have talked to, almost all are opposed to organizations like that. I know more about it than you think.

    You can call the ESPN piece hack journalism all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the NLN people had zero knowledge of NCAA rules, and that lack of knowledge could have had serious consequences for the kids.

    Oh, and as to how it's run by CHC people, let's just look at the bios from the NLN website:

    http://www.nextlevelnation.com/coryrobinson.html

    Cory Robinson (CEO/Co-Founder): "CEO of Next Level Nation is a former defensive back and current assistant varsity football coach at Calvert Hall College HS in Towson, MD"

    http://www.nextlevelnation.com/devinredd.html

    Devin Redd (CEO/Co-Founder): "CEO of Next Level Nation is a former defensive back/JC All-American and current assistant varsity football coach at Calvert Hall College HS in Towson, MD"

    http://www.nextlevelnation.com/mikewilliams.html

    Mike Williams (Skill Developer): "Coach Williams has coached quarterbacks of all levels at Calvert Hall over the past 7 years."

    So by my count, that's both CEO/Co-Founder's and 1 of the 2 "Skill Developers" who are current varsity assistants at CHC. How is that not run by CHC people?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglesinsider View Post
    That's all well and good, but I assure you that almost, if not all, of the parents paying for their kids to attend a for-profit training organization like NLN are doing so in the hopes that their kids can get a D1 scholarship.

    I'm sure Joel could have been essentially a preferred walk-on at the same D2 school as his older brother with or without NLN. Joel wasn't working out with those guys, his parents weren't paying for him to work out with those guys, for him to go to a D2 school. Face it, NLN represents itself as the "path to D1" and their goal is to send as many kids to D1 as possible so they can put it on their brochures and on their website to get more parents to pay more money to train with them.

    Look at the alumni on their website: http://www.nextlevelnation.com/classgrads.html

    It's all scholarship or big name guys, I don't see any D3 kids on there, or kids who aren't playing football in college but "relished the chance to see a college campus." They mention all their 4/5-star recruits, not the "guys who won't go on to play D1 or D2."

    On the same website they talk about their "hand-selected" 7-on-7 team and trumpeting their 64-4 record in 7-on-7. If that's not an "All-Star" team I don't know what is. I see Joel is nowhere to be seen on their list of Class of 2012 athletes, guess they can't have someone going to St. Anselm ruin their image.

    NLN is all about selling to parents that they can send their kids D1, even if they can't. It is unscrupulous at best and fraudulent at worst. Looking at their website you'd think every kid who ever went through their program was somewhere playing football on a scholarship.

    Now they are stooping even lower, pandering to middle school kids and parents. If you look at their Class of 2016 page, it has which prep schools are interested in signing them. Any training organization that has to have a marketing director and a public relations director is clearly primarily in it for the money.

    A lot more of the McDonogh kids train with a different personal trainer, who acts how a trainer should act, he stays in the background and doesn't put his name all over the kids successes. I doubt anyone on this board even knows his name, but he's worked with not just HS kids, but college athletes and pros as well.

    NLN strives to get their name out all over the place, because they are a business first and a venture for helping kids second, more D1 kids= larger profits for them.

    I have a great amount of respect for Lawrence Smith at Dunbar, as well as a great (if grudging) amount of respect for Biff Poggi. They have both spoken out against this, and I do as well. I believe Coach Smith used the phrase "preying on the weak" to describe these types of organizations. Obviously no one can stop NLN from operating, but I urge every coach out there to take a good look at the facts and make a decision: Is this really something you want your student-athletes involved in?

    Like it or not, NLN represents the kind of "3rd party organizations" that the NCAA does not want having access to student-athletes. I don't want any rouge unregulated "trainers" having access to my players. Not because of my ego, but because that's when NCAA violations occur. I have no problem with my players going to a camp at UMD or Pitt or WVU or anywhere else, because I know the coaches there are going to be bound by NCAA rules, unlike the NLN coaches, the "all-star" 7-on-7 events, and the non-school sponsored combines. I don't want a young man losing out on his future because some greedy "trainer" overstepped his boundaries.

    You may not like the ESPN Outside the Lines piece, but there is one condemning statement about NLN from Deontay McManus. He talks around Cory Robinson and if they ever talk about potential violations. McManus said they didn't, that Robinson said "just trust me, I wouldn't do anything to hurt you." If you're not willing to talk to a kid who asks about what constitutes an NCAA violation and what doesn't, you've probably either broken or are breaking the rules.
    To be fair I think that NLN has made some mistakes in the past but now they have taken their bumps and bruises and learned from them. You my friend are jumping around everywhere. One minute you say you dont care for 7on7's then the next you say I for 7on7s but only if they were for the high schools not NLN. Its clear that you are against NLN and everything they represent.

    My only problem is that a lot of the points you are making prove nothing. You complain about who is on their alumni page. Claiming that some "Joel" is not listed because he went to a D2. You claim they only list big schools but you arewrong. All the schools listed are not DI schools. (Prep schools, Hartness, Shepard, etc) Then you complain about who is one their page as alum but that makes no sense. Just because you train with NLN doesnt necessarily mean you are considered to be an official alum and/or considered part of their classes. If they were just about big names and sellings themselves why would they not put Stefon Diggs for their (2012) then or a Darius Jennings (alum) whom participated at type of workout and/or 7v7 with them before? Im pretty sure that would do wonders for them then as a company from a marketing standpoint

    Then you state "they have a marketing and PR person they are clearly in it for the money" If that isnt a blind assumption IDK what it is. You tell me what organization (Non-profit and/or for-profit) doesnt have a marketing person and/or some type of public or community relations person thats wouldnt be labeled as a mom and pop shop. It seems as if you want those dudes to stay local but I think they are setting themselves to expand beyond Baltimore and I can truly see why. (All this negativity they are receiving here is almost like crabs in a barrel...lol)....A wise man once told me you have to make it, master it, and then matter.

    Next, I see you used Lawrence as an example with the "preying on the weak" quote. Take a look at the kids from Dunbar who received collegiate offers and check how many of them were NLN kids (at least 3). Look at most of the kids getting recognition at Dunbar today (Crest is the exception...lol) and ask yourself how many are NLN kids. Why does some Dunbar staff still work with NLN at different if they are so bad for the program?
    Take your time to talk to those kids and/or parents and see their perspectives of the program. No to discredit any of those young mens talent but they helped them get where they are today. Actually you can hear from them first hand here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xJ88K2togE)

    Its obvious you have some personal issue with Next Level Nation based on all of your opinionated not factual statements.

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