Pay raises for teachers

[karlydee]

Several things about your link. Isn't the most recent data point 2007 prior to the great recession? The link may be 2010 but isn't the most recent data 2007? You also are comparing folks over 60 with those in the 45-54 age group who are still raising families and have college on the horizon and may still have a mortgage. As you can see from the Fed Reserve report study released Monday the great recession took a toll on the 2007 number impacting seniors less than other groups. As noted we are perfect examples. No impact on pension, got a 3% COLA, Investments took a hit but have rebounded. Sold one house in 2007 and bought two more. Live out of state several states away and half of my cul-de sac neighbors are from Maryland and happy. Why are they happy? Cost of living, less expensive housing and free of crime etc. It is those seniors who are able to afford active 55 housing who are most sought out as they need less services and have the resources to help pay the bills. Yes there are seniors not as well off but other states are not trying to recruit them. In fact they will be happy to let them stay in place in the North East. Yes sad but true Red states and some Blue don't consider all seniors to be equal and desire some more than others. That is my point yet we are a divirgent group in wealth but don't you think a state needs some of the more affluent ones to stay behind and help pay the bills?

The demographics stay very constant.

I'm simply showing that 65+ pay very little taxes to the States.

Their income is usually not taxed by the state, MD does not tax SS which is the predominant component of retirement income for seniors

[Informed Thinker]

The demographics stay very constant.

I'm simply showing that 65+ pay very little taxes to the States.

Their income is usually not taxed by the state, MD does not tax SS which is the predominant component of retirement income for seniors

Not in Maryland especially because of the high level of state and federal governernment employees with pensions and sizable investment accounts. The danger of either of using national numbers is that includes the retired federal worker in Bethesda and a sharecropper in Alabama. Beyond income taxes and pension taxes above any exclusion there are sales taxes, property taxes, capital gain taxes and dividend taxes. Many current and former Maryland seniors have quite adequate nest eggs. Again when you say only SS you are talking the poor and unless you are factoring them in as tax burdens or to lower the average they have little bearing on accumulating wealth and for many thats what it is about. However the current regime in the White House and at the Fed is trying to make that impossible for savers and investors. We clearly don't know or speak with directly or online with the same group of seniors and thats why we have such different perspectives. Try going to any active 55 community in Maryland and see how many of them are living on just SS. Remember this thread is about teacher compensation and how many retired public workers from Maryland regardless of where they live are doing so only on SS. Just look at the built up equity even today for anyone with a paid for house in most parts of the Balt/DC region

http://www.delwebb.com/find-a-home/Search.aspx

These are the housing communities and residents local governments want.

[Informed Thinker]

The demographics stay very constant.

I'm simply showing that 65+ pay very little taxes to the States.

Their income is usually not taxed by the state, MD does not tax SS which is the predominant component of retirement income for seniors

You are kidding aren't you? A majority of the public school students in Maryland are non White! That isn't a significant change? Again not all immigrants are as valuable as others. Many come with needed skills and are an enhancement to the economy even if undocumented however not all. Just like the inner city has some solid contributors to society. The trick is retaining the good and getting the others to relocate. This may sound cruel but not wanting Maryland to become the California of the East Coast with a wealthy population and lots of attractions that has become over run with debt and more debt.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/califo...142406301.html

California is the national leader in welfare recipients. About 3.8 percent of state residents were on welfare in 2010, the highest percentage in the country. In fact, California houses about a third of the nation's welfare recipients, while only housing one-eighth of the national population.

This also exacerbates the challenges to sustaining their public employee pensions. Especially at the local government level. Welfare or teachers is a challenge in many places these days.

[karlydee]

You are kidding aren't you? A majority of the public school students in Maryland are non White! That isn't a significant change? Again not all immigrants are as valuable as others. Many come with needed skills and are an enhancement to the economy even if undocumented however not all. Just like the inner city has some solid contributors to society. The trick is retaining the good and getting the others to relocate. This may sound cruel but not wanting Maryland to become the California of the East Coast with a wealthy population and lots of attractions that has become over run with debt and more debt.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/califo...142406301.html



This also exacerbates the challenges to sustaining their public employee pensions. Especially at the local government level. Welfare or teachers is a challenge in many places these days.

We are not talking about scary little brown, red, and yellow children.

The comparative amounts of median household net worth across age groups has remained relatively constant proportionally from 1990-2010.

The percentage of population on welfare is not a driver WRT to tax revenue. The drivers are tax rate and overall taxable income and taxable property in the State.

One of the main drivers in revenue fall for the States and localities is the drastic drop in home values, resulting in lower property tax assessments .

US household net worth is tied almost completely to home value for the overwhelming majority of people. Therefore as net worth drops, so does local and state revenue. Remember you are not taxed on the value of your 401K portfolio, but your home and other personal property (vehicles in many States besides MD) are fair game.

In many places in Maryland, the property tax paid by a household likely far exceeds the income tax paid, including the county piggyback tax.

[Informed Thinker]

You are taxed on your 401/403 at normal tax rates upon withdrawal with MRD's starting at age 70. So to illustrate my point. A person works in Maryland for 35 years. Saves a considerable sum in a tax deferred account and upon retirement transplants to another state. At some point between retirement and 70.5 they begin to draw their account down. It will not be Maryland that receives those taxes it will be their new state. Make that person a public employee and a government in Maryland paid them without getting any taxes back on the money they invested in their 403(B). I know that personally.

[Informed Thinker]

We are not talking about scary little brown, red, and yellow children.

The comparative amounts of median household net worth across age groups has remained relatively constant proportionally from 1990-2010.

The percentage of population on welfare is not a driver WRT to tax revenue. The drivers are tax rate and overall taxable income and taxable property in the State.

One of the main drivers in revenue fall for the States and localities is the drastic drop in home values, resulting in lower property tax assessments .

US household net worth is tied almost completely to home value for the overwhelming majority of people. Therefore as net worth drops, so does local and state revenue. Remember you are not taxed on the value of your 401K portfolio, but your home and other personal property (vehicles in many States besides MD) are fair game.

In many places in Maryland, the property tax paid by a household likely far exceeds the income tax paid, including the county piggyback tax.

you are serious? There is no correlation between being on welfare and taxable income? How many actual home owners are there in Baltimore City residing in the homes they own and paying property taxes on them?

[karlydee]

you are serious? There is no correlation between being on welfare and taxable income? How many actual home owners are there in Baltimore City residing in the homes they own and paying property taxes on them?

Not overall Gross Income in the State, no there is not a correlation.

You pay property tax whether you live in your home --or rent it to someone else. Actually you pay more if you rent b/c you don't get a homestead credit.

[Informed Thinker]

Not overall Gross Income in the State, no there is not a correlation.

You pay property tax whether you live in your home --or rent it to someone else. Actually you pay more if you rent b/c you don't get a homestead credit.

Please read what I said. If you rent from someone else you pay how much directly in property tax? If you are section 8 you pay how much in property tax. What percentage of residents in Baltimore City rent from someone else and or are section 8 etc. We don't know the same people. If you paying more in property taxes than state and local income tax what is that persons housing debt to income ratio? You do realize that about 50% of adult Americans don't pay any federal income tax and not it is not because they are millionaires. Wake up there are many people here there and everywhere living off of the wealth creation by someone else and many states are finding themselves with a growing inbalance between the two. Thus that is why so many are finding it a challenge to meet their pension obligations so they can keep the system viable for the future and that is what we both want. Remember there is earned income and how many of the poor have much of that? Who earned the income they have? My point is that in order for Maryland to sustain the standard of living so many enjoy someone has to pay the bills and way up on the bills to be paid list is the pension for public employees.

[karlydee]

Please read what I said. If you rent from someone else you pay how much directly in property tax? If you are section 8 you pay how much in property tax.

It doesn't matter if renters or section 8 don't directly pay; the owner pays and a higher amount than normally (regardless if they live out of state).

Like I said before, a shortfall in revenue needed to pay for statutorily required spending is a consequence of too low tax rates

[Informed Thinker]

It doesn't matter if renters or section 8 don't directly pay; the owner pays and a higher amount than normally (regardless if they live out of state).

Like I said before, a shortfall in revenue needed to pay for statutorily required spending is a consequence of too low tax rates

Egads you are a tax and spend sort.