Belief In God Plummets Among Youth

[Byng]

For me it does not discredit the church. My daughter's work in Kenya is something for me to be proud of regardless of the fact she is with a Catholic group.

And good for you Mom, you should be very proud. I don't think anybody is suggesting that you or your daughter or the wonderful work that she obviously does are responsible for the irresponsibility, short-sighted and dangerous policy decisions of the Catholic Bishops!

[Rintrah]

I don't have to explain them -- they are just as ridiculous.

I have no faith, I demand evidence to even generate a position on the truth or falsehood of everything.

If you want to define God as 'the sum total of everything', that is just a semantic way of saying God = Universe, which is not useful.

If you demand evidence then provide evidence that Objective Reality exists.

Actually God is more than just the Universe. God is all Consciousness. That's what I was explaining earlier in this thread. The Genesis account is not a scientific account of the creation of the universe. It's a poetic account of an individual's consciousness. Adam is not the first man. He's every man. Consciouness begins with the recognition and difference between light and dark. It evolves to consciousness of fellow creatures who have the same value as you and who are a part of you (created from your rib). Eden is your inner being.

I think this concept of God is very useful. Being that God is All, that makes each of us a part of God. It's meant to teach you that you are part of everything and everything is a part of you, which is meant to endow you with a respect for all around you. It's meant to show you that you "create" your idea of the world through what you do with your consciousness. It's your responsibility. It's your power. You can blame no one else. You can go blaming others, as Adam did Eve. You can't go blaming some dumb creature, as Eve did the serpent. And you can't ever hide from your Consciousness.

[jrob]

What would you like for an answer? Should I become a Muslim or Jew?

Not unless you feel compelled to do so.

Are you aware of how much effort Catholic Relief Services puts into de-legitimizing Israel??

Why does the Vatican harbor such hatred of Jewish sovereignty??

Why are the same forum members that make references to this history constantly rationalizing the same or worse from Islamic leaders?

You may not share its zeal in these areas. I just don't know how anyone can observe any religion where the *most* pious do these things and have supported these policies.

Among Jews, it's the absolute worst and least pious that do these things. And these are the Jews that are glorified by the world at large.

I'll add that the latent and submerged neo-naziism that I see in my Pakistani Muslim co-worker does not exist in the average American Roman Catholic (who is mostly ignorant of this history). I think that the typical RC is fine with Jewish sovereignty, unlike many Muslims.

[DaggerJohn]

Since you do not know what she is doing over there you are not in a position to decide what you approve of or not.

I've become increasingly convinced that 'slapshot' took too many hockey pucks to the head.

[The Astute Reader(tm)]

I am human, unless you believe that my programmer should win the Turing Prize

I have no need for a deity.

There was once a time when I was foolish enough to believe that everything man wanted or needed to know was in the realm of the knowable. And I was smug enough to be confident that only those things that could stand up the cold light of science had any real value. More to the point, I was also arrogant enough to ridicule all those who did not share my unassailably correct point of view. I'm rather fortunate to have outgrown all that.

[slapshot]

I've become increasingly convinced that 'slapshot' took too many hockey pucks to the head.

And I'm convince you still haven't learned how to read.

[slapshot]

For me it does not discredit the church. My daughter's work in Kenya is something for me to be proud of regardless of the fact she is with a Catholic group.

As jrob asked - "What would it take to discredit the church"? Not God. Not Jesus. But the institution of the Catholic Church.

Simple question.

Nobody is suggesting you shouldn't be proud of your daughter's work. You should be proud. But it's pretty clear you are unable to separate out what your daughter is doing, from the institution known as the Catholic Church. All churches are run by men, and men are prone to making mistakes. Although in these cases, the men should have been above moral and ethical reproach, and the mistakes they made were monumental in magnitude.

[slapshot]

Slight change of subject, but still relevant to the thread and the current discussion:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...eys/?hpt=hp_c1

[Mom49of4]

As jrob asked - "What would it take to discredit the church"? Not God. Not Jesus. But the institution of the Catholic Church.

Simple question.

Nobody is suggesting you shouldn't be proud of your daughter's work. You should be proud. But it's pretty clear you are unable to separate out what your daughter is doing, from the institution known as the Catholic Church. All churches are run by men, and men are prone to making mistakes. Although in these cases, the men should have been above moral and ethical reproach, and the mistakes they made were monumental in magnitude.

All churches are made up of imperfect people. I won't attempt to defend what she is doing in Kenya with you or anyone else simply because she is there with a Catholic group.

When you have met me in person and lived my life then you can tell what I am capable of doing and not doing.

[karlydee]

There was once a time when I was foolish enough to believe that everything man wanted or needed to know was in the realm of the knowable.

Anything truly not in the realm of the knowable (unknowable : lying beyond the limits of human experience or understanding )


is therefore irrelevant discussion of the unknowable is futile, and useless


the truly unknowable ( we cannot experience, perceive, or understand) -- for all practical purposes does not exist

[slapshot]

All churches are made up of imperfect people. I won't attempt to defend what she is doing in Kenya with you or anyone else simply because she is there with a Catholic group.
.

Again, nobody is asking you to "defend" anything. Nobody is asking you not to be proud of your daughter and what she is doing. You are reading these posts, aren't you? I don't intend to repeat myself, again.

The question asked of you, by jrob, is very simple - What, if anything, would the Catholic Church have to do to be "discredited" in your eyes.

Very simple question, that does not ask for a defense.

It's pretty clear you had no idea about the Church's involvment (either directly, or indirectly) in the extermination of millions of Jews. So, I guess if this doesn't do it for you, or the decades long pedephilia scandal amongs Catholic priests from around the globe...then I guess you've indirectly answered the question.

Your Answer: Nothing.

My Response: That's Sad

Increasingly, the new reality for the catholic Church: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...eys/?hpt=hp_c1

[Mom49of4]

I can't please everyone.

[jrob]

Again, nobody is asking you to "defend" anything. Nobody is asking you not to be proud of your daughter and what she is doing. You are reading these posts, aren't you? I don't intend to repeat myself, again.

The question asked of you, by jrob, is very simple - What, if anything, would the Catholic Church have to do to be "discredited" in your eyes.

Very simple question, that does not ask for a defense.

It's pretty clear you had no idea about the Church's involvment (either directly, or indirectly) in the extermination of millions of Jews. So, I guess if this doesn't do it for you, or the decades long pedephilia scandal amongs Catholic priests from around the globe...then I guess you've indirectly answered the question.

Your Answer: Nothing.

My Response: That's Sad

Now that we're discussing real history, I look forward to your renouncement of your antizionist position, one born from Islamist big-lie propaganda, which was allied with Hitler during WWII and has continued unabated through the present.

Next you should watch the videos of a true atheist, Pat Condell. It's not possible to be an atheist and be an antizionist, since all antizionist positions call for the replacement of Judaism with Islam, not atheism.

And finally, a local rabbi can help you come home to Zion.

[reg_indy]

It also leaves open the possibility that the Great Spaghetti Monster created the universe

We're all Pastafarians under the surface....

[slapshot]

Now that we're discussing real history, I look forward to your renouncement of your antizionist position, one born from Islamist big-lie propaganda, which was allied with Hitler during WWII and has continued unabated through the present.

Next you should watch the videos of a true atheist, Pat Condell. It's not possible to be an atheist and be an antizionist, since all antizionist positions call for the replacement of Judaism with Islam, not atheism.

And finally, a local rabbi can help you come home to Zion.

I am not Jewish, although many of my best friends are. If anything, I align myself with the teachings of Buddhism. As a scientist, I find Buddhism more in line with my belief in nature and the inner self.

I simply wish to keep an open mind on all issues.

I would welcome a link to the video your refer to.

[jrob]

I am not Jewish, although many of my best friends are. If anything, I align myself with the teachings of Buddhism. As a scientist, I find Buddhism more in line with my belief in nature and the inner self.

I simply wish to keep an open mind on all issues.

I would welcome a link to the video your refer to.

Look up 'Pat Condell' on the youtube. Pat used to be a bit of an Israel-hater, but I think has gradually noticed the extent to which global media lies about the Jews (world policy going back millenia), and that it's not possible to be an atheist and to support the replacement of Zionism with Islamic supremacism. A person that holds such stances is either a) not an atheist b) unintelligent or c) a liar for US/EU policy.

Sometimes I wish bootsy was still here, for the rare times she was lucid, she made some good points on these topics, particularly with regard to the exact reasons why Hitler despised Judaism (essentially because it's about improving this world, not an afterlife. Imperialists can get others to do *anything* if they can promise them glories in an afterlife).

[Byng]

I can't please everyone.

Can you at least see the irony of the Catholic Church providing missionaries to help AIDS orphans in Kenya while the Catholic Bishops demonise the use of Condoms to these same people that go a long way in preventing the AIDS virus in the first place?

I will admit that in some local areas where Catholic Church Leaders are not as influential some Catholic Workers (According to Doctors Without Boarders) are distributing Condoms and giving safe sex education to the local population because they understand how wrong it is not to do so, but it is in defiance of the Catholic Bishops and confusing for the people they are trying to help while also trying to recruit them into the Catholic Church. Plus the practice of doing so is the exception rather than the rule.

Again this is just another example of where religious dogma is doing immense harm rather than good. Teach abstinence by all means but at least teach people how to protect themselves should abstinence not be an option for them.

[bmore_ken]

Actually God is more than just the Universe. God is all Consciousness. That's what I was explaining earlier in this thread. The Genesis account is not a scientific account of the creation of the universe. It's a poetic account of an individual's consciousness. Adam is not the first man. He's every man.

I'm willing to bet the majority of Christians in the world disagree with your view.

[The Astute Reader(tm)]

I'm willing to bet the majority of Christians in the world disagree with your view.

Not to put too fine an edge on this, but I'm willing to bet that you don't have any idea what "the majority of Christians in the world" actually think.

[The Astute Reader(tm)]

Anything truly not in the realm of the knowable (unknowable : lying beyond the limits of human experience or understanding )


is therefore irrelevant discussion of the unknowable is futile, and useless


the truly unknowable ( we cannot experience, perceive, or understand) -- for all practical purposes does not exist

And yet human beings (with a few, uh, ahem notable exceptions) are exceedingly good at wondering about about unknowable things. It's what we are. Pepper tried to clue you into this concept earlier, but you snubbed the idea. It must be hell living within such narrow limitations.