Abound Solar, which planned to employ up to 1,000 in Tipton, will file for bankruptcy

[Sprightly]

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-conten...ees-Report.pdf

[soulflower]

<sigh> I don't care about Germany. "Loaning" billions and losing billions. I'm happy that you have no problem with that.

I'd rather see my money go to science and technology development than aircraft carriers and unnecessary wars. That's just me...

In terms of solar investment, I think its time for us to admit defeat and wait and see what happens with China.

Hindsight is 20/20. There's no point criticizing Washington for not having the foresight to see how much China would outspend us...

[Sprightly]

This is more than, "Oh well, we didn't see that coming." Much more. Stop giving your government excuses.

[soulflower]

This is more than, "Oh well, we didn't see that coming." Much more. Stop giving your government excuses.

Stop whining. The government spends our money on things we might not care for or agree with. Deal with it.

I'm just explaining that these deals didn't look so bad 4 or 5 years ago

[Sprightly]

Stop whining. The government spends our money on things we might not care for or agree with. Deal with it.

I'm just explaining that these deals didn't look so bad 4 or 5 years ago

So questioning our government is now considered to be "whining." I'll remember that, soulflower.

Plus, again, this is much more than the "deals didn't look so bad" scenarios. You know it. Did the deals look good two years ago? (That's right, I didn't miss your attempt to skip the last three years.)

[soulflower]

So questioning our government is now considered to be "whining." I'll remember that, soulflower.

Plus, again, this is much more than the "deals didn't look so bad" scenarios. You know it. Did the deals look good two years ago? (That's right, I didn't miss your attempt to skip the last three years.)

You should try educating yourself on the topic before asking dumb questions

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/03...right-response

[Sprightly]

You should try educating yourself on the topic before asking dumb questions

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/03...right-response

I can always tell when you're trying frantically to defend something that you know that you can't defend.

[soulflower]

I can always tell when you're trying frantically to defend something that you know that you can't defend.

Did you bother to read the article? Probably not. But we already knew you weren't intrrested in having a serious discussion about Solar power or our ongoing trade problems with China...

[CajunRaven]

Germany also invested and lost a lot of taxpayers money in trying to boost their solar industry.

The problem is China. They are spending 1000 times more on solar subsidies than the US or any other country. So neither American, nor German companies can compete with the Chinese who are able to produce and sell the solar products for dirt cheap. Many of these Energy loan projects began during the Bush-Cheney years. I don't think anyone could've predicted the tactics that China used to corner the Solar market.

I have no problem with the government loaning money to technology companies. Heck, we wouldn't be sitting here online having this discussion if the government didnt invest in the research and development of the internet.

I'll disagree on that one SF. It's not like China hasn't been rigging the game for a long time now. And we need to start enjoining them in the game. We should hit them with tarrifs for products they import.

[mlatoman]

I have not posted here in a long time. Nice to see the same boobs are still boobs.

[soulflower]

I'll disagree on that one SF. It's not like China hasn't been rigging the game for a long time now. And we need to start enjoining them in the game. We should hit them with tarrifs for products they import.

I'm not so sure about that. Germany is far more fiscally conservative than the US and even they seemed to think these solar subsidies were a good investment until recently. They just ended their subsidies a few months ago.

Going forward, I have no issue with these solar energy loans ending atleast temporarily given what we know now but I don't think energy loans in general should end.

Government and the private sector SHOULD be working together to keep the US at the forefront of innovation and development in the technology and energy industries...

[grggngll]

Stop whining. The government spends our money on things we might not care for or agree with. Deal with it.

I'm just explaining that these deals didn't look so bad 4 or 5 years ago

They did look bad, that is why they failed to attract the private equity.

[slapshot]

They did look bad, that is why they failed to attract the private equity.

Says who?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...cans-democrats

"The solar company is also backed by Invus Public Equities Advisors LLC, which was co-founded by Raymond Debbane, who has donated to Republican candidates including Representative Darrell Issa, a California Republican who led an investigation of the U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee program.

Another Abound investor, DCM Venture Capital, has two Republican donors on its payroll -- Bob Hawk, who hosted a fund raiser for Senator John McCain, and Dixon Doll, who contributed to Representative Paul Ryan’s Prosperity political action committee."

[can you hear me now!]

Says who?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...cans-democrats

"The solar company is also backed by Invus Public Equities Advisors LLC, which was co-founded by Raymond Debbane, who has donated to Republican candidates including Representative Darrell Issa, a California Republican who led an investigation of the U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee program.

Another Abound investor, DCM Venture Capital, has two Republican donors on its payroll -- Bob Hawk, who hosted a fund raiser for Senator John McCain, and Dixon Doll, who contributed to Representative Paul Ryan’s Prosperity political action committee."

did you really expect the poster child for intellectual dishonesty and laziness to actually do any type of research? he doesn't own an original thought, he just serves as an echo chamber for those just like him...

[grggngll]

Says who?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...cans-democrats

"The solar company is also backed by Invus Public Equities Advisors LLC, which was co-founded by Raymond Debbane, who has donated to Republican candidates including Representative Darrell Issa, a California Republican who led an investigation of the U.S. Energy Department loan guarantee program.

Another Abound investor, DCM Venture Capital, has two Republican donors on its payroll -- Bob Hawk, who hosted a fund raiser for Senator John McCain, and Dixon Doll, who contributed to Representative Paul Ryan’s Prosperity political action committee."

Sure they invested, with guarantees by the us taxpayers. Big deal.

[slapshot]

Sure they invested, with guarantees by the us taxpayers. Big deal.

Nope.

Their investment was not Federally insured.

"The Colorado company has lined up money from investors including Invus Group, Bohemian Companies, BP Alternative Energy and West Hill Investors, DCM (Doll Capital Management) and Technology Partners. Abound had received over $300 million in private funding as of December 2011, the DOE said."

The company also got $68 mil in a guaranteed loan from DoE to allow them to expand their production facility. The company declared bankruptcy, so the only money that's coming back will be from the sale of their capital (and any IP they have).

[grggngll]

Nope.

Their investment was not Federally insured.

"The Colorado company has lined up money from investors including Invus Group, Bohemian Companies, BP Alternative Energy and West Hill Investors, DCM (Doll Capital Management) and Technology Partners. Abound had received over $300 million in private funding as of December 2011, the DOE said."

The company also got $68 mil in a guaranteed loan from DoE to allow them to expand their production facility. The company declared bankruptcy, so the only money that's coming back will be from the sale of their capital (and any IP they have).

Why didn't the existing private investors come up with the 68 million? Why would anyone want the government involved? Yup!

[slapshot]

Why didn't the existing private investors come up with the 68 million? Why would anyone want the government involved? Yup!

I think you will have to ask the GOP folks from Indiana? They wanted it.

The bottom line is - If company X promises to create a lot of well paying manufacturing jobs, state and federal gov officials are going to fall all over themselves to make that happen.

It's all about the promise of jobs.

[grggngll]

I think you will have to ask the GOP folks from Indiana? They wanted it.

The bottom line is - If company X promises to create a lot of well paying manufacturing jobs, state and federal gov officials are going to fall all over themselves to make that happen.

It's all about the promise of jobs.

Private investors were on board.
An extra 68M was necessary.
When they applied for the government money someone should have asked "how about your existing investors?"

[slapshot]

Private investors were on board.
An extra 68M was necessary.
When they applied for the government money someone should have asked "how about your existing investors?"

I responded to your post #52, which said, and I quote:

"...they failed to attract the private equity."


This statement is grosly incorrect. They attracted a LOT of private funding. In fact, most of their start up funding was private money, not gov backed loans.

The additional money was to be used to create manufacturing jobs. The promise of creating 1,000 jobs in the US, in this economy, is something any administration - rep/dem - is going to be strongly supportive of. I doubt that private investors gave a crap about creating jobs in the US. Their interest is in maximizing profits on their investment. For all they care, ship the technology over seas and let the Chinese manufacture the solar cells. Private equity firms don't care where the product is made. There's no loyalty to the US work force. So Period.

Finally, it's quite common to find joint private-Government funding for many high tech companies that require a lot of initial capital to make a go of it. This is nothing new. Usually, however, the Gov funds the initial research, or more risky phases, while private equity firms tend to jump in when they are more confident of a return.