Benghazi Attack

[Wizard777]

Neither is okay. Incompetence or outright fabrication are the binary options in the solution set.

Speaking of incompetence. All this hub bub about the after the fact statements. How does this help anyone figure out how to prevent this kind of attack from happening again in the future? How does this help anyone find out who the people that did this are and bring them to justice? So far the only enemy's the republicans have identified in these attacks are President Obama and Ambassador Rice. The Republicans keep saying that there is a cover up. But before there can be a cover up there has to be a crime that was committed. So what crime do they suspect the Administration of committing? If it were a crime to even intentionally mislead the American people. By the end of the Bush Administration the entire GOP would have been in jail.

The GOP is not conducting it's self with the decorum expected of US Senators and US Represetatives. Instead they have chosen to conduct themselves with all the decorum of a batchit crazy FOX talk show host.

God help us! 2014 can't get here quick enough.

[dsummoner]

Speaking of incompetence. All this hub bub about the after the fact statements. How does this help anyone figure out how to prevent this kind of attack from happening again in the future? How does this help anyone find out who the people that did this are and bring them to justice? So far the only enemy's the republicans have identified in these attacks are President Obama and Ambassador Rice. The Republicans keep saying that there is a cover up. But before there can be a cover up there has to be a crime that was committed. So what crime do they suspect the Administration of committing? If it were a crime to even intentionally mislead the American people. By the end of the Bush Administration the entire GOP would have been in jail.

The GOP is not conducting it's self with the decorum expected of US Senators and US Represetatives. Instead they have chosen to conduct themselves with all the decorum of a batchit crazy FOX talk show host.

God help us! 2014 can't get here quick enough.

The more pertinent questions, my friend, are what was State and the CIA doing in Benghazi and why the after-the-fact obfuscation?

[Wizard777]

The more pertinent questions, my friend, are what was State and the CIA doing in Benghazi and why the after-the-fact obfuscation?

I don't think there was any after the fact Obfuscation. I think it's more of a case of the signal getting lost in the noise of the film protests occuring simultaniously and then spreading across the Middle East. It's like trying to identify a gun shot durring a fireworks display.

[dsummoner]

I don't think there was any after the fact Obfuscation. I think it's more of a case of the signal getting lost in the noise of the film protests occuring simultaniously and then spreading across the Middle East. It's like trying to identify a gun shot durring a fireworks display.

The interagency process has one with many cooks. Changes in wording, language and even content are predictable. It would appear that someone took the following to heart when putting in their 'special sauce:'

“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”

This does not explain Petraeus' lying to Congress. There were no 'video and stuffs' protests happening in Benghazi (one would hope that the government understands that Cairo and Benghazi are not one in the same).

[Wizard777]

The interagency process has one with many cooks. Changes in wording, language and even content are predictable. It would appear that someone took the following to heart when putting in their 'special sauce:'

“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”

This does not explain Petraeus' lying to Congress. There were no 'video and stuffs' protests happening in Benghazi (one would hope that the government understands that Cairo and Benghazi are not one in the same).

No they are not the same. But the events are not immediately distiguishable. Cairo: Firework Benghazi: Gunshot Saudi Arabia: Firework Israel: Firework Iraq: Firework Iran: Firework. etc. etc.

Then you have people saying, I though it was one of the fireworks going off. I though the guy got hit by a stray firework. Then after further investigation they find out the guy laying on the ground with a hole in his chest wasn't hit by a stray firework. He was shot during the fireworks display. So at first the signal got lost in the noise. But they eventually found the signal. So just get the hell over it. This souldn't be too hard for the republicans that spent 2 years after 9/11 saying, "Let's not play the blame game."

[dsummoner]

No they are not the same. But the events are not immediately distiguishable. Cairo: Firework Benghazi: Gunshot Saudi Arabia: Firework Israel: Firework Iraq: Firework Iran: Firework. etc. etc.

Then you have people saying, I though it was one of the fireworks going off. I though the guy got hit by a stray firework. Then after further investigation they find out the guy lating on the ground with a hole in his chest wasn't hit by a stray firework. He was shot during the fireworks display. So at first the signal got lost in the noise. But they eventually found the signal. So just get the hell over it.

The events were quite distinguishable (even to the government). That the government ran with the narrative that it did rests squarely on the shoulders of government.

[SalisburySage]

Watergate? its more similar to Powell testifying on Iraq's WMD... No one was killed by Rice's statements.

You are kidding right??? You must be a lobotomized liberal.

[Wizard777]

The events were quite distinguishable (even to the government). That the government ran with the narrative that it did rests squarely on the shoulders of government.

This isn't like the Republicans,including Romney, insisting that the Cairo Embassy had issued an apology for America when they didn't. Insisting that the protest was an attack upon the Cairo Embassy and it wasn't. As they can now plainly see with Benghazi. When you're Embassy is attacked a hell of a lot more than your flag gets burnt. Have the Republicans corrected any of those misstatements that mislead America?

No one disputed this being an act of terrorism. Basically the Republicans are going insane because at first there was a little confusion about the motive for the attack. Who cares what the motive was? Can't we just do like the Republicans did with the first 9/11 and pull one out of our arse? "They hate our freedom." Uh huh.......

As for the CIA. I think we can cut their entire budget to help reduce the deficit. There's no sense spending all that money when the republicans can't keep a secret. Everytime they pick up the scent of a CIA Agent or Operation they expose them. So we can have a CIA or we can have Republicans. But we obviously can't have both. So until America decides what they want more the CIA or the Republicans. There's no sense in wasting money on a CIA budget.

[TheResearcher]

If Hussein had defended our site in Benghazi as strongly as he defends Mzzzzzzzz Rice, 4 Americans would still be alive.

[gonzoliberal]

If Hussein had defended our site in Benghazi as strongly as he defends Mzzzzzzzz Rice, 4 Americans would still be alive.

If reality was an axx-biting horsefly, you wouldn't sit for a week.

[dsummoner]

This isn't like the Republicans,including Romney, insisting that the Cairo Embassy had issued an apology for America when they didn't. Insisting that the protest was an attack upon the Cairo Embassy and it wasn't. As they can now plainly see with Benghazi. When you're Embassy is attacked a hell of a lot more than your flag gets burnt. Have the Republicans corrected any of those misstatements that mislead America?

The Embassy being attacked was the direct result of US foreign policy. In the first it was the meddling of Kufr. In the second, Obama's throwing of Mubarak under the bus (given that the US was meddling and yet, failed to use soft power influence with the Egyptian military) emboldened the followers of the path of Allah. Now, the Muslim Brotherhood, as predicted, controls the show and the US bought and paid for 'truce' and 'peace' between Israel and Egypt is well on its way to ending. While the comedy of trying to peddle the Muslim Brotherhood as 'moderate' by a secular Western definition will still continue for same time, the quickening of the failure of the schizophrenic and oft conflicted US foreign policy objectives is at hand.

No one disputed this being an act of terrorism. Basically the Republicans are going insane because at first there was a little confusion about the motive for the attack. Who cares what the motive was? Can't we just do like the Republicans did with the first 9/11 and pull one out of our arse? "They hate our freedom." Uh huh.......

Incorrect on the first (a spontaneous demonstration over a video in no manner conforms to the legal definition of terrorism that the US employs). The Republicans will have to defend themselves. Any 'confusion' over the motivation for the attacks was cleared up well before Petraeus' lying to Congress and the administration trying to peddle it for its own political agenda. Motivation is a key component in regards to separating terrorism from mere criminality. Understanding the motivations of the groups involved is key to understanding the human terrain. They don't hate your freedoms... they hate your infidelity.

As for the CIA. I think we can cut their entire budget to help reduce the deficit. There's no sense spending all that money when the republicans can't keep a secret. Everytime they pick up the scent of a CIA Agent or Operation they expose them. So we can have a CIA or we can have Republicans. But we obviously can't have both. So until America decides what they want more the CIA or the Republicans. There's no sense in wasting money on a CIA budget.

As far as the CIA goes... an interventionist foreign policy requires people in the field (for now) and intermediaries to dole out pallets of US greenbacks. Of course, with the bungling and buffoonery that has come to embody the USIC, the CIA does a wonderful job of exposing itself.

[Mom49of4]

dsummoner, do you believe the administration has been honest with us about Benghazi?

[dsummoner]

dsummoner, do you believe the administration has been honest with us about Benghazi?

No. I do not. Some degree of political spinning is to be expected (irrespective of administration and inclusive of the 'interagency' process) but there are two deeper issues at work here. The first involves why State and the CIA were in Benghazi (specifically and not generally - this is the issue that Byng and I have been debating) and the second is why did Petraeus lie to Congress (lying to the civilian populace is to be expected from the CIA but lying to Congress is something else)?

[SalisburySage]

Jesus H. Christ. What the heck is the reason why no one is asking about sending help to the ambassador. Forget about if Obama knew or didn't know. WHy didn't he send in a massive response to try an save them??????

[TheResearcher]

Jesus H. Christ. What the heck is the reason why no one is asking about sending help to the ambassador. Forget about if Obama knew or didn't know. WHy didn't he send in a massive response to try an save them??????

Maybe he was waiting for permission from George Soros.

[Wizard777]

Incorrect on the first (a spontaneous demonstration over a video in no manner conforms to the legal definition of terrorism that the US employs). The Republicans will have to defend themselves. Any 'confusion' over the motivation for the attacks was cleared up well before Petraeus' lying to Congress and the administration trying to peddle it for its own political agenda. Motivation is a key component in regards to separating terrorism from mere criminality. Understanding the motivations of the groups involved is key to understanding the human terrain. They don't hate your freedoms... they hate your infidelity.

You see that's just it. No one is saying or said that a protest is an act of terrorism. No, any confusion over the motivation has not been cleared up. No one has stated a motive for the attacks. All that has been done is one motive has been eliminated. This did not grow out of a protest. The actual motive for the attack has yet to be discerned and the GOP is too busy losing their minds over the early reports to be bothered with trying to find the real motive or even the people responsible for the attack. At this point the Republicans are so far gone in this hate fest. I think someone will actually have to remind them that it was neither President Obama nor Ambassador Rice that attacked the embassy.

[Byng]

Jesus H. Christ. What the heck is the reason why no one is asking about sending help to the ambassador. Forget about if Obama knew or didn't know. WHy didn't he send in a massive response to try an save them??????

Help was sent immediately in the form of a previously covert Annex of CIA Agents, they went to the Ambassadors aid, fought off the attackers, evacuated back to their Annex, fought of more attacks, evacuated 30 or so Americans safely to the Airport and all were evacuated out of Benghazi with the loss of just 4 lives. So this attack was successfully repelled by CIA Covert Agents doing what they do in looking after themselves. Once somebody made the decision for the CIA to break their cover the need for a CIF force or any other forces come to that ceased to exist. But don't let the facts get in the way of another good partisan rant Commander.

[Wizard777]

No. I do not. Some degree of political spinning is to be expected (irrespective of administration and inclusive of the 'interagency' process) but there are two deeper issues at work here. The first involves why State and the CIA were in Benghazi (specifically and not generally - this is the issue that Byng and I have been debating) and the second is why did Petraeus lie to Congress (lying to the civilian populace is to be expected from the CIA but lying to Congress is something else)?

You should know better. You can lie to Congress about anything BUT sports. You can walk into Congress and lie through your teeth about WMD's in Iraq. No one is going to jail over that lie. BUT if you lie about a baseball player using steroids. They will jack the jail up and put you under it.

If you haven't figured out what was going on in Benghazi. I'm disappointed. I think it's quite obvious at this point.

[dsummoner]

You see that's just it. No one is saying or said that a protest is an act of terrorism. No, any confusion over the motivation has not been cleared up. No one has stated a motive for the attacks. All that has been done is one motive has been eliminated. This did not grow out of a protest. The actual motive for the attack has yet to be discerned and the GOP is too busy losing their minds over the early reports to be bothered with trying to find the real motive or even the people responsible for the attack. At this point the Republicans are so far gone in this hate fest. I think someone will actually have to remind them that it was neither President Obama nor Ambassador Rice that attacked the embassy.

A mere protest can not be an act of terrorism as classified by the government's own definition (for the quadripartite components of this definition see: Pillar, P. Terrorism and US Foreign Policy. Washington DC: Brookings Institution Press, 2001: 12-15). I agree with you in part regarding motivation. That the attack was politically motivated as a generality appears to be established fact. The specificity is what is lacking. The two questions that I have raised before are the ones for which I would really like to see some answers (even if it mines writing a paper as a means of engendering a response - perhaps even a free trip to an all expenses paid 'luxury' overseas resort). My disagreements with the Obama foreign policy are the same as they were with Bush's foreign policy.

[Byng]

................... and if Ambassador Stevens had not died from smoke inhalation you would never had heard about the CIA being in Benghazi or the other 3 guys that were killed. There would have been no playing football with dead American lives by the right in the lead up to an election and not a single hearing that you would know about, being conducted. Oh and no John McCain making an arse of himself on the floor of the Senate screaming at an empty chamber.