Fall back

[weird-O]

inspired by the end of daylight saving time, Jim Duquette's show was asked which players or teams will fall backward from their 2012 performances.

the A's and O's were the only teams mentioned. JD said he sees the O's falling back if they try to use the same starting rotation philosophy they used last year. he said he just doesn't see how the piecemeal approach could yield the same results 2 yrs in a row.

the only individual O's player mentioned was Jim Johnson. they said he and F. Rodney simply reached dizzying heights that are hard to reach, let alone stay at. both co-hosts mentioned that this wasn't a knock on either pitcher.

I see the O's rotation as a little more established now. so I don't see the piecemeal approach as being necessary next season.

Tillman and Gonzalez both came up mid-season. I have confidence that Gonz. is the guy we saw in '12. Tillman still has ? since he hasn't put together a consistant track record. but even if he stumbles next year, Chen, Hammel & Gonzalez seem set. Steve Johnson has earned the #5 slot. he pitched a couple of big games, last least season, and delivered.

Chen and Gonz. should both have better stamina in '13 since they have a full season under their belts.

and Bundy is waiting in the wings if things get rough or someone goes down to injury later in the season. although conventional wisdom says he won't be up next year.

[Gizmo]

inspired by the end of daylight saving time, Jim Duquette's show was asked which players or teams will fall backward from their 2012 performances.

the A's and O's were the only teams mentioned. JD said he sees the O's falling back if they try to use the same starting rotation philosophy they used last year. he said he just doesn't see how the piecemeal approach could yield the same results 2 yrs in a row.

the only individual O's player mentioned was Jim Johnson. they said he and F. Rodney simply reached dizzying heights that are hard to reach, let alone stay at. both co-hosts mentioned that this wasn't a knock on either pitcher.

I see the O's rotation as a little more established now. so I don't see the piecemeal approach as being necessary next season.

Tillman and Gonzalez both came up mid-season. I have confidence that Gonz. is the guy we saw in '12. Tillman still has ? since he hasn't put together a consistant track record. but even if he stumbles next year, Chen, Hammel & Gonzalez seem set. Steve Johnson has earned the #5 slot. he pitched a couple of big games, last least season, and delivered.

Chen and Gonz. should both have better stamina in '13 since they have a full season under their belts.

and Bundy is waiting in the wings if things get rough or someone goes down to injury later in the season. although conventional wisdom says he won't be up next year.

Agreed, but I still hope that we can somehow add at least 1 quality starter this offseason, via free agency or trade or whatever.

[weird-O]

me too. there's always room for improvement.

[hector]

inspired by the end of daylight saving time, Jim Duquette's show was asked which players or teams will fall backward from their 2012 performances.

the A's and O's were the only teams mentioned. JD said he sees the O's falling back if they try to use the same starting rotation philosophy they used last year. he said he just doesn't see how the piecemeal approach could yield the same results 2 yrs in a row.

the only individual O's player mentioned was Jim Johnson. they said he and F. Rodney simply reached dizzying heights that are hard to reach, let alone stay at. both co-hosts mentioned that this wasn't a knock on either pitcher.

I see the O's rotation as a little more established now. so I don't see the piecemeal approach as being necessary next season.

Tillman and Gonzalez both came up mid-season. I have confidence that Gonz. is the guy we saw in '12. Tillman still has ? since he hasn't put together a consistant track record. but even if he stumbles next year, Chen, Hammel & Gonzalez seem set. Steve Johnson has earned the #5 slot. he pitched a couple of big games, last least season, and delivered.

Chen and Gonz. should both have better stamina in '13 since they have a full season under their belts.

and Bundy is waiting in the wings if things get rough or someone goes down to injury later in the season. although conventional wisdom says he won't be up next year.

JD has always been the black sheep in the family and doesn't know what he's talking about. If going from 96 to 84 wins is falling back, then the O's fall back but they'll still be very competitive with their current pitching staff.

The teams most likely to fall back are Washington, the Yankees, San Francisco and St. Louis. The teams likely to show the biggest improvement include Boston, Anaheim, and the Dodgers.

[Far from home]

inspired by the end of daylight saving time, Jim Duquette's show was asked which players or teams will fall backward from their 2012 performances.

the A's and O's were the only teams mentioned. JD said he sees the O's falling back if they try to use the same starting rotation philosophy they used last year. he said he just doesn't see how the piecemeal approach could yield the same results 2 yrs in a row.

the only individual O's player mentioned was Jim Johnson. they said he and F. Rodney simply reached dizzying heights that are hard to reach, let alone stay at. both co-hosts mentioned that this wasn't a knock on either pitcher.

I see the O's rotation as a little more established now. so I don't see the piecemeal approach as being necessary next season.

Tillman and Gonzalez both came up mid-season. I have confidence that Gonz. is the guy we saw in '12. Tillman still has ? since he hasn't put together a consistant track record. but even if he stumbles next year, Chen, Hammel & Gonzalez seem set. Steve Johnson has earned the #5 slot. he pitched a couple of big games, last least season, and delivered.

Chen and Gonz. should both have better stamina in '13 since they have a full season under their belts.

and Bundy is waiting in the wings if things get rough or someone goes down to injury later in the season. although conventional wisdom says he won't be up next year.

Yeah, I don't see this team taking a step back, either, if they can get equivalent to 2nd half 2012 production out of those guys next year.

I'm not betting on it.

Personally, I think that the only way the O's maintain their improvement is if they keep Peterson.
It might seem like I'm beating a dead horse, but pitchers don't just gain 5 mph on their fastball unless either they are slipped something, or someone finds a process that allows them to maximize their potential.
Tillman was never a mid-90's pitcher.
Hunter never flashed a high 90's fastball.
Gonzo was a high-80's pitcher.
You can go on and on.

imo, they also need to sign two vet pitchers.

[Softbank Orioles]

5+ million commitment on Wada. He'll be a candidate.

[Softbank Orioles]

Yeah, I don't see this team taking a step back, either, if they can get equivalent to 2nd half 2012 production out of those guys next year.

I'm not betting on it.

Personally, I think that the only way the O's maintain their improvement is if they keep Peterson.
It might seem like I'm beating a dead horse, but pitchers don't just gain 5 mph on their fastball unless either they are slipped something, or someone finds a process that allows them to maximize their potential.
Tillman was never a mid-90's pitcher.
Hunter never flashed a high 90's fastball.
Gonzo was a high-80's pitcher.
You can go on and on.

imo, they also need to sign two vet pitchers.

Pitchers usually throw harder from the pen and Tillman changed his mechanics a lot.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Far from home]

Pitchers usually throw harder from the pen and Tillman changed his mechanics a lot.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I know exactly what I'm talking about - but you obviously don't know how to read and quote from TV announcers...
You're being an *** hat.

Pitchers don't always throw harder from the pen (see Koji), and Tillman was the exact example I was talking about.
When you have multiple pitchers in the same group of pitchers that you basically had last season throwing significantly better, it takes quality mechanics analysis in depth to find out issues (unless the coach and player are lucky) to squeeze out that much more mph from an arm.
I don't ever remember any point in his career when he threw mid-90's.

Same with Hunter - here's a scouting report from 2010.
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2010/10/...couting-report

I don't remember hearing about too many pitchers whose velocity jumped consistently 5-8 mph from starting to bullpen. JJ for instance, has about a 3 mph jump for how he was scouted as a starter to when he moved to reliever.

This is precisely why the O's need Peterson to come back. His mechanical analysis is off the charts, and has put the O's for the first time in 30 years at the forefront of baseball thought.

Next time, read before you type.

[EmDot]

I'm jumping in without reading the whole thread but did either of them have surgery. Haven't most pitchers thrown better (and sometimes with new mechanics) after surgery?

I thought this thread was about turning the clocks back tonight.

[Byng]

inspired by the end of daylight saving time, Jim Duquette's show was asked which players or teams will fall backward from their 2012 performances.

the A's and O's were the only teams mentioned. JD said he sees the O's falling back if they try to use the same starting rotation philosophy they used last year. he said he just doesn't see how the piecemeal approach could yield the same results 2 yrs in a row.

the only individual O's player mentioned was Jim Johnson. they said he and F. Rodney simply reached dizzying heights that are hard to reach, let alone stay at. both co-hosts mentioned that this wasn't a knock on either pitcher.

I see the O's rotation as a little more established now. so I don't see the piecemeal approach as being necessary next season.

Tillman and Gonzalez both came up mid-season. I have confidence that Gonz. is the guy we saw in '12. Tillman still has ? since he hasn't put together a consistant track record. but even if he stumbles next year, Chen, Hammel & Gonzalez seem set. Steve Johnson has earned the #5 slot. he pitched a couple of big games, last least season, and delivered.

Chen and Gonz. should both have better stamina in '13 since they have a full season under their belts.

and Bundy is waiting in the wings if things get rough or someone goes down to injury later in the season. although conventional wisdom says he won't be up next year.

I would not count Bundy out from being part of the starting rotation out of Spring Training.

[kudzu]

JD said he sees the O's falling back

Glad to see that JD ain't stupid.

The O's got so far this year beacause, um, erm, eh...

Luck ? Fate ? The planets lining up a certain way ?

[bmore_ken]

Glad to see that JD ain't stupid.

The O's got so far this year beacause, um, erm, eh...

Luck ? Fate ? The planets lining up a certain way ?

It's one of those StoneHenge type mysteries

[hector]

It's one of those StoneHenge type mysteries

Is there a mystery about StoneHenge? My great-grandparents were part of the group that built it for the imperialistic Brits. Great-grandpa was also named Hector.