The Death Penalty Works

[demopublican]

I am a Christian. I am quite sure if Christ weighed in on this subject, he would take my side.

And if he was an American citizen he would get one vote like the rest of us.
But since he is dead his view is not important to me.

[Omaha Beach]

I would think more in terms of consciousness, a developed mental capability. Which is even more murky I know.

So lets, just off children with Downs and cerebral palsy while you are at it huh? Not very much developed mental capabiity there. Trying to defend the indefensible does get tiring.

[cprenegade]

The death penalty does not deter other criminals. I believe this has been well established. So that motive is out the window. Again my concern us what it does to us as a society.

I remember when Bundy was executed, people--many people brought their children to the prison to "witness" the act, big rally in the parking lot. Lots of cheering when the announcement was made. How Christian. And such good parents!!

Actually, I don't know how you can make that argument one way or the other. The death penalty is used so infrequently that the possible deterrent cannot be measured accurately. If it was used in every open and shut, no doubt murder case, perhaps we could tell. But the way it is applied now offers no real data as to a possible deterrent.

[cprenegade]

What happens if the person is innocent?

Well...OOPS !

In any case where there is not absolute 100% proof, it should not be an option. But there are many cases where there is no doubt.

[Dryfire]

If the life without parole is "carried out" [completed] it cannot be overturned. Likewise, the death penalty can also be overturned before it is carried out.

Comprehension problems? My post clearly states that if the death penalty is carried out it's permanent. Life without parole can always be appealed and taken to another court until all of the numerous avenues are expended.

[ms maggie]

So lets, just off children with Downs and cerebral palsy while you are at it huh? Not very much developed mental capabiity there. Trying to defend the indefensible does get tiring.

Do kids with Downs and CB not have consciousness? I had no idea.

Life to me without consciousness is not life--see Terry Schiavo.

Deliberately misinterpreting what someone else posts to have a convenient straw dog does get tiring.

[ms maggie]

Actually, I don't know how you can make that argument one way or the other. The death penalty is used so infrequently that the possible deterrent cannot be measured accurately. If it was used in every open and shut, no doubt murder case, perhaps we could tell. But the way it is applied now offers no real data as to a possible deterrent.

There have been many studies done on this (Did grad school stats project on this so have more interest than the average bear) when it was more common--states that went from having to not having and contiguous states that had very common crime stats w one having and one not having. The conclusion is decisive--no deterrent. And the reason why IOM is clear: people who commit capital crimes don't think they will get caught!!!

I wouldn't say the death penalty is used infrequently. Certainly not in Texas, Alabama and prob some other states.

[songfourone]

[QUOTE=Rintrah;8190369]My concern is what the lack of a death penalty does to us as a society. It says you can do whatever selfish dastardly act you like against other individuals and we're going to take care of you for the rest of your life.

There's a wide difference between murdering for one's own benefit and killing to punish and to keep a murderer from being a burden on society anymore.





Originally Posted by songfourone
There have been 301 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 36 states; since 2000, there have been 234 exonerations.

• 18 of the 300 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.

• The average length of time served by exonerees is 13.6 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,036.

• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 27.

Races of the 300 exonerees:

187 African Americans
86 Caucasians
21 Latinos
2 Asian American
5 whose race is unknown

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...onerations.php

[Rintrah]

[QUOTE=songfourone;8191686]

My concern is what the lack of a death penalty does to us as a society. It says you can do whatever selfish dastardly act you like against other individuals and we're going to take care of you for the rest of your life.

There's a wide difference between murdering for one's own benefit and killing to punish and to keep a murderer from being a burden on society anymore.





Originally Posted by songfourone
There have been 301 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.

• The first DNA exoneration took place in 1989. Exonerations have been won in 36 states; since 2000, there have been 234 exonerations.

• 18 of the 300 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row. Another 16 were charged with capital crimes but not sentenced to death.

• The average length of time served by exonerees is 13.6 years. The total number of years served is approximately 4,036.

• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions was 27.

Races of the 300 exonerees:

187 African Americans
86 Caucasians
21 Latinos
2 Asian American
5 whose race is unknown

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...onerations.php

I think most of the people who argue in favor of the death penalty, such as I, agree that it should be carried out only for cases where there is no question of guilt. Jared Loughner would serve as a prime example as he was apprehended in the act of carrying out his murders. Doesn't it bother you, like it does me, that the price he has to "pay" for taking the lives of our fellow citizens is free housing, food, and health care for the rest of his life? While his victims got a death sentence. I say take the money we're spending to keep him alive on compensation for the victims' families. For you who are anti-death penalty, how about you pay extra taxes to keep people like this imprisoned. How about it? Would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is?

[WKDWZD]

[quote=Rintrah;8192104]

I think most of the people who argue in favor of the death penalty, such as I, agree that it should be carried out only for cases where there is no question of guilt. Jared Loughner would serve as a prime example as he was apprehended in the act of carrying out his murders. Doesn't it bother you, like it does me, that the price he has to "pay" for taking the lives of our fellow citizens is free housing, food, and health care for the rest of his life? While his victims got a death sentence. I say take the money we're spending to keep him alive on compensation for the victims' families. For you who are anti-death penalty, how about you pay extra taxes to keep people like this imprisoned. How about it? Would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Don't 'they' already?

[cprenegade]

There have been many studies done on this (Did grad school stats project on this so have more interest than the average bear) when it was more common--states that went from having to not having and contiguous states that had very common crime stats w one having and one not having. The conclusion is decisive--no deterrent. And the reason why IOM is clear: people who commit capital crimes don't think they will get caught!!!

I wouldn't say the death penalty is used infrequently. Certainly not in Texas, Alabama and prob some other states.

The total number of murders in the US annually exceeds 10,000. The total number of executions carried out is annually well under 500. That is less than 5%. Even in those states which use the death penalty more often, the percentage of executions vs. murders is still what would be considered infrequent. I agree that there are some murders that the death penalty will never serve as a deterrent for. Crimes of passion certainly would qualify as that. But perhaps the death penalty would be a deterrant for the criminals who chose to execute their victims in the case of robbery, where the victim is an unknown who just happens to be unlucky enough to be in a situation at the wrong time. Then there is also the feeling of closure for the murder victims families. Often surviving family members lives are torn apart by the murder of a loved one. I see no reason to allow a murderer to continue his life, even a life of imprisonment, once he has voluntarily chosen to take anothers life. And finally there are convicted murderers who have murdered again. Execution of the murderer after his first killing absolutely 100% guarantees that he will not commit a second murder. No other penalty comes with that same guarantee.

[BlandFood]

There have been many studies done on this (Did grad school stats project on this so have more interest than the average bear) when it was more common--states that went from having to not having and contiguous states that had very common crime stats w one having and one not having. The conclusion is decisive--no deterrent. And the reason why IOM is clear: people who commit capital crimes don't think they will get caught!!!

I wouldn't say the death penalty is used infrequently. Certainly not in Texas, Alabama and prob some other states.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/numb...nd-region-1976

13 a year in Texas, 0 last year in Alabama 37 to date in the entire US. For so many democrats that murder very few get snuffed.

Your "certainly not" claim was certainly wrong.

[Rintrah]

[QUOTE=WKDWZD;8192110]

Don't 'they' already?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The anti-death penalty proponents pay the extra taxes that keep murderers alive; the rest of us are exempt from those taxes.

[Omaha Beach]

Do kids with Downs and CB not have consciousness? I had no idea.

Life to me without consciousness is not life--see Terry Schiavo.

Deliberately misinterpreting what someone else posts to have a convenient straw dog does get tiring.

So are you saying that a fully developed nine month old fetus about to be snuffed out by a partial birth abortion has no "consciousness"? What facts do you base that statement on?