Southern Israel under attack by Gaza rockets

[veritas]

Still hallucinating, eh?

Why don't you pay attention and address "when the State of Israel was created" to WKDWZD who, on this thread, has been going back and forth with ATLAS about when "the State of Israel" was created. Again, pay attention so as not to look foolish.

As for "opinions", they certanly can be wrong when they are based on emotion or a misinterprtation of the facts.

Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts.

End Quote


In your prior post#50, you claim:

"There was no "palestine" to the extent that it had either a recognized government or borders and that situation still obtained in 1947 when the UN proposed the two state solution."

The facts are that the UNGA Partition Resolution refers to "Palestine" 46 times and the Resolution specifies boundaries within Palestine's boundaries for dividing Palestine.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm


And try to remember that the UN General Assembly Resolutions are non-binding. The UNGA had neither the authority to partition Palestine nor the means to enforce the partition of Palestine. The UN Security Council appreciated the violence that would surely ensue and would not consider the issue of partition of Palestine. In fact, by March 1948, the U.S. was against the partition plan and wanted a UN trusteeship for Palestine.

http://unitednationstrusteeshippales....blogspot.com/
Quote

It becomes clear by 19 March 1948 that the United States rejects the partition plan and favours a UN trusteeship for Palestine until such a time as the Jews and Arabs of Palestine can reach agreement.

End Quote


UN trusteeship became a non-starter when the Zionists declared the state of Israel that May. They not only claimed the territory specified in the Partition Plan but also more territory captured and cleansed of Palestinians such as Jaffa for example.

.

When was the "state" of Palestine created? Answer: never. Therefore, what its borders would have been had it accepted the UN proposal, are a moot point. The region is never going back to pre-1948.

It becomes clear by 19 March 1948 that the United States rejects the partition plan and favours a UN trusteeship for Palestine until such a time as the Jews and Arabs of Palestine can reach agreement.

What makes anyone think this ever would have happened? The Arabs have never been interested in reaching any agreement. Their interest lies elsewhere.

[beeg jacques]

Why do you suppose that it was/is known as The British Mandate for Palestine or more commonly the "Palestinian Mandate" and not the 'Israeli Mandate'?

From WKDWZD's source:

First of all, the Palestinian Arabs do have a state. Its called Jordan. During the League of Nations Mandate period, the land originally set aside by the League of Nations as the Palestine Mandate was supposed to provide for a national home for the Jewish people. The British were given the authority to manage the Mandate and help the Jews make the transition to independence. Instead, almost 80% of the original Mandate land was carved out and arbitrarily made into the Arab country of Trans-Jordan (later renamed Jordan).

Thanks to WKDWZD for helpfully informing the forum that an Arab State had already been created from the bulk of the Mandate.

The subsequent UN partition attempted to create yet another Arab State, however the facts of history clearly show that the Arabs rejected the creation of not only Israel, but also the creating of an additional self-determining and independent Arab State.

[Daan]

When was the "state" of Palestine created? Answer: never. Therefore, what its borders would have been had it accepted the UN proposal, are a moot point. The region is never going back to pre-1948.

It becomes clear by 19 March 1948 that the United States rejects the partition plan and favours a UN trusteeship for Palestine until such a time as the Jews and Arabs of Palestine can reach agreement.

What makes anyone think this ever would have happened? The Arabs have never been interested in reaching any agreement. Their interest lies elsewhere.

The Palestinians' interest is in their right to self determination.

The UN and the Zionists had no business violating the Palestinians right to self determination.

http://www.1948.org.uk/partition-and-the-law/
Quote

Under International Law, Palestine, throughout the Mandatory period, was to receive administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory to help it set up its own government. Already, Palestine had its fixed boundaries, its government institutions, its own currency and, in 1934, its national anthem.

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: it was a provisionally independent state receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine. It was a dormant sovereignty exercised by the Mandatory power on behalf of the people of Palestine.

Article 28 of the Mandate stipulated that at the end of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass on to the control of ‘the Government of Palestine’. The termination of the Mandate on 15 May 1948 was to signal the birth of a free and sovereign Palestine in fulfilment of Paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. It was supposed to pave the way for the establishment of an independent and sovereign government in Palestine without the intervention of either the United Nations or any other foreign government for that matter.

End Quote


Are your opinions based on emotion or misinterpretations or both?

.

[beeg jacques]

The Palestinians' interest is in their right to self determination.

The UN and the Zionists had no business violating the Palestinians right to self determination.

http://www.1948.org.uk/partition-and-the-law/
Quote

Under International Law, Palestine, throughout the Mandatory period, was to receive administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory to help it set up its own government. Already, Palestine had its fixed boundaries, its government institutions, its own currency and, in 1934, its national anthem.

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: it was a provisionally independent state receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine. It was a dormant sovereignty exercised by the Mandatory power on behalf of the people of Palestine.

Article 28 of the Mandate stipulated that at the end of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass on to the control of ‘the Government of Palestine’. The termination of the Mandate on 15 May 1948 was to signal the birth of a free and sovereign Palestine in fulfilment of Paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. It was supposed to pave the way for the establishment of an independent and sovereign government in Palestine without the intervention of either the United Nations or any other foreign government for that matter.

End Quote


Are your opinions based on emotion or misinterpretations or both?

.

Speaking of your biased site's woeful misinterpretation of Article 28 of the Palestine Mandate:

ART. 28.

In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon the Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in perpetuity, under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and 14, and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the financial obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public servants to pensions or gratuities.

[veritas]

The Palestinians' interest is in their right to self determination.

The UN and the Zionists had no business violating the Palestinians right to self determination.

http://www.1948.org.uk/partition-and-the-law/
Quote

Under International Law, Palestine, throughout the Mandatory period, was to receive administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory to help it set up its own government. Already, Palestine had its fixed boundaries, its government institutions, its own currency and, in 1934, its national anthem.

Palestine’s legal position under International Law was clear: it was a provisionally independent state receiving administrative assistance and advice from the Mandatory. The sovereignty was vested in the people of Palestine. It was a dormant sovereignty exercised by the Mandatory power on behalf of the people of Palestine.

Article 28 of the Mandate stipulated that at the end of the Mandate, the territory of Palestine would pass on to the control of ‘the Government of Palestine’. The termination of the Mandate on 15 May 1948 was to signal the birth of a free and sovereign Palestine in fulfilment of Paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. It was supposed to pave the way for the establishment of an independent and sovereign government in Palestine without the intervention of either the United Nations or any other foreign government for that matter.

End Quote


Are your opinions based on emotion or misinterpretations or both?

.

The Palestinians have never demonstrated any interest in exercising self determination in all their history. When they've been given the opportunity to do so, they've declined. That is simply fact. Oh, and the only person with an apparent emotional investment in the question, is you.

[bmore_ken]

From WKDWZD's source:



Thanks to WKDWZD for helpfully informing the forum that an Arab State had already been created from the bulk of the Mandate.

The subsequent UN partition attempted to create yet another Arab State, however the facts of history clearly show that the Arabs rejected the creation of not only Israel, but also the creating of an additional self-determining and independent Arab State.

Isn't it funny how the Jew haters have no problem with the creation of Jordan?

[veritas]

Isn't funny how the Jew haters have no problem with creation of Jordan?

Even worse is that Arabs reside on 99.97% of the total land in the ME yet the Palestinans insist on the tiny slivver that comprises Israel.

[zenwalk]

Even worse is that Arabs reside on 99.97% of the total land in the ME yet the Palestinans insist on the tiny slivver that comprises Israel.

So you'd load up the family sedan and move to Pennsylvania when the Chinese require Maryland to settle an occupation force? You'd be left with something like 99% of the rest of America.

[beeg jacques]

So you'd load up the family sedan and move to Pennsylvania when the Chinese require Maryland to settle an occupation force? You'd be left with something like 99% of the rest of America.

Nowhere does the UN Partition agreement mention any moving, resettlement, or occupation forces.

[zenwalk]

Nowhere does the UN Partition agreement mention any moving, resettlement, or occupation forces.

I have no idea what it says or what it doesn't. The only observable fact that matters is there is a sizable aggrieved population. Whether the beef is legitimate or not, it's theirs. It's not for you to decide and more importantly, it's not for American taxpayer money to decide. It's plain the government would prefer all the Arabs to magically disappear. That's not going to happen. The PA offered to take the Palestinian right of return off the table. How did Netanyahu react? As if this major step forward wasn't even offered. The Likudniks have absolutely no intention to placate the Arabs. Appointing the Ultranationalist Lieberman foreign minister is the rough equivalent of naming Bull Conner head of the Justice Department.

The two state solution has been dead on the floor for years. The only ones that hold on to this pipe dream are Americans with agendas. Expect things to continue to worsen until thousands are killed.

[WKDWZD]

Isn't it funny how the Jew haters have no problem with the creation of Jordan?

Be careful who you call a Jew hater... You can call me a Zionism hater, any Jews or non Jews that support Israel's continuing theft of Palestinian land can consider themselves 'hated' by me.

[WKDWZD]

Even worse is that Arabs reside on 99.97% of the total land in the ME yet the Palestinans insist on the tiny slivver that comprises Israel.

The tiny little slivver [sic] that just happens to have Jerulsalem in it... Don't be so disengenuous veritas, display at least a small modicum of honesty, if you can.

[beeg jacques]

I have no idea what it says or what it doesn't. The only observable fact that matters is there is a sizable aggrieved population. Whether the beef is legitimate or not, it's theirs. It's not for you to decide and more importantly, it's not for American taxpayer money to decide. It's plain the government would prefer all the Arabs to magically disappear. That's not going to happen. The PA offered to take the Palestinian right of return off the table. How did Netanyahu react? As if this major step forward wasn't even offered. The Likudniks have absolutely no intention to placate the Arabs. Appointing the Ultranationalist Lieberman foreign minister is the rough equivalent of naming Bull Conner head of the Justice Department.

The two state solution has been dead on the floor for years. The only ones that hold on to this pipe dream are Americans with agendas. Expect things to continue to worsen until thousands are killed.

Gee...Even Abbas himself declares he wasn't and isn't giving up any "right of return".

http://www.wafa.ps/arabic/index.php?...tail&id=141328

http://translate.google.com/translat...%26id%3D141328

[WKDWZD]

So you'd load up the family sedan and move to Pennsylvania when the Chinese require Maryland to settle an occupation force? You'd be left with something like 99% of the rest of America.

veritas' typical hasbaric, Israeli-firster shyte here shows you exactly where he stands, along with the rest of the narrow minded and bigoted 'crew'. The hatred of Palestinians that the ~2% of Jews in the US have generated is clear testament to the power of AIPAC. Thank God that we aren't as conditioned by them over here as you obviously are over there.

[veritas]

So you'd load up the family sedan and move to Pennsylvania when the Chinese require Maryland to settle an occupation force? You'd be left with something like 99% of the rest of America.

Wars and history have consequences. The long decay and final death of the Ottoman empire ended Arab control of Jerusalem. I'm not sure why you guys are blaming the Jews for the failure of the Arabs. Just as Alsace-Lorraine kept changing hands after each war, so Jerusalem has changed hands. The Palestinians won't take half a loaf when offered, so they have to settle for nothing.

[sage]

And how does this concern U.S.?

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

The Attack

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

The Cover Up
Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

http://www.gtr5.com/

[beeg jacques]

The tiny little slivver [sic] that just happens to have Jerulsalem in it... Don't be so disengenuous veritas, display at least a small modicum of honesty, if you can.

East Jerulsalem [sic] was offered to the Palestinian Arabs on more than one occasion as part of a negotiated peace agreement. Those offers were either violently rejected (Arafat) or ignored (Abbas).

[veritas]

veritas' typical hasbaric, Israeli-firster shyte here shows you exactly where he stands, along with the rest of the narrow minded and bigoted 'crew'. The hatred of Palestinians that the ~2% of Jews in the US have generated is clear testament to the power of AIPAC. Thank God that we aren't as conditioned by them over here as you obviously are over there.

Glad to see you can't stick to the topic but have to go off on an emotional tirade against me. It matters little to me who controls Jerusalem but I can see clearly enough to know that pre-1948 will never happen and that one side has no desire for peace or compromise. Not surprisingly, it's the side you and your leftists buddies support.

[beeg jacques]

veritas' typical hasbaric, Israeli-firster shyte here shows you exactly where he stands, along with the rest of the narrow minded and bigoted 'crew'. The hatred of Palestinians that the ~2% of Jews in the US have generated is clear testament to the power of AIPAC. Thank God that we aren't as conditioned by them over here as you obviously are over there.

Not supporting the Palestinian Arab goal of eliminating Israel does not equate to hatred of the Palestinian Arabs.

But thanks for sharing your thoughts on that subject.

[bmore_ken]

Be careful who you call a Jew hater... You can call me a Zionism hater, any Jews or non Jews that support Israel's continuing theft of Palestinian land can consider themselves 'hated' by me.

Theft you say?


Two great empires, the Ottomans and the British, ruled Eretz Yisrael. In contrast, Zionists lacked military power. They could not possibly achieve statehood through conquest. Instead, they purchased land. Acquiring property dunam by dunam, farm by farm, house by house, lay at the heart of the Zionist enterprise until 1948. The Jewish National Fund, founded in 1901 to buy land in Palestine “to assist in the foundation of a new community of free Jews engaged in active and peaceable industry,” was the key institution — and not the Haganah, the clandestine defense organization founded in 1920. Zionists also focused on the rehabilitation of what was barren and considered unusable. They not only made the desert bloom, but drained swamps, cleared water channels, reclaimed wasteland, forested bare hills, cleared rocks, and removed salt from the soil. Jewish reclamation and sanitation work precipitously reduced the number of disease-related deaths.

Only when the British Mandate of Palestine gave up power in 1948, followed immediately by an all-out attempt by Arab states to crush and expel the Zionists, did the latter take up the sword in self-defense and go on to win land through military conquest. Even then, as the historian Efraim Karsh demonstrates in Palestine Betrayed, most Arabs fled their lands; exceedingly few were forced off

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-daniel-pipes#