Residents From 20 States File Petitions to Secede From Union

[Phineas Finn]

No they are inherent to our humanity. Of course people can take natural rights away but we have a word for that, tyranny.

Who says?

Where's the evidence that anything is inherent to our humanity other than the necessities of our physical condition? The "idea" of natural rights is no more real than any of thousand ideas about the existence and nature of God.

[gonzoliberal]

The Confederacy of Takers


excerpt;


...

The White House, in one of those astro-turf efforts that make people feel warm about small-d democracy, launched a “We the People” program on its Web site last year, allowing Americans to petition their government for a redress of grievances. Any petition that receives 25,000 or more signatures within 30 days is promised a response (though not necessarily a favorable one) from the Obama administration.

And so a large number of patriotic Americans, mostly from states won by Mitt Romney last week, have petitioned the White House to let them secede. They should be careful about what they wish for. It would be excellent financial news for those of us left behind if Obama were to grant a number of the rebel states their wish “to withdraw from the United States and create [their] own NEW government” (the petitions emphasize “new” by capitalizing it).

Red states receive, on average, far more from the federal government in expenditures than they pay in taxes. The balance is the opposite in blue states. The secession petitions, therefore, give the opportunity to create what would be, in a fiscal sense, a far more perfect union.

...

[can you hear me now!]

after thinking about it, letting red states go is the ultimate in deficit reduction-- the drain on the federal budget will ease and the collective IQ of the remaining states goes up...that's a win/win....

[jtowne-swim]

Hardly. The Constitution was never intended to enslave a population. Show me where it is.

The Constitution from it's start had the premise of enslaving a population when it counted people as 3/5ths of a person! That said it is not enslavement to accept the rule of law that is Constitutionally passed with the Constitutionally elected government and ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court whose job is to arbitrate this.

[jtowne-swim]

Those with only two Obama provided X boxes and not three.

What program is that which Obama provides X boxes. I am familiar with phones provided by Reagan and Bush!

[jtowne-swim]

Very true. Especially telling your 5 year old he has cancer and he has to go through treatment in order to live.

Better than telling him we can't afford the treatment so he is going to have to suck it up!

[jtowne-swim]

The Constitution is clear about that? Then it should be easy for you to cite what article and section it is that clearly states that secession is unconstitutional.

Article IV section 3 clause 1

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

[jtowne-swim]

Absolutely and California too. You really don't get it do you?

So you would be OK with Puerto Rican statehood? Should Congress have to grant them permission?

[jtowne-swim]

after thinking about it, letting red states go is the ultimate in deficit reduction-- the drain on the federal budget will ease and the collective IQ of the remaining states goes up...that's a win/win....

No boarder patrol needed from Mexico and clearly Texas wants to stay out so border security just got cheaper.

[can you hear me now!]

No boarder patrol needed from Mexico and clearly Texas wants to stay out so border security just got cheaper.

Texas would become a third world country if they seceded..50% of their budget comes from the USG, the largest employer in Texas is the USG, the Texas budget is about $15 Billion in the red now, imagine what would happen when the USG would relocate all the functions, to include military bases, outside of Texas...I can tell you what will happen, the people in New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma and Arkansas would experience an in-flux of refugess....like I said earlier, people are not thinking this all the way through...

thanks for the article from the constitution...it's sad to think how many people are familiar with the most important document regarding how this country was formed....

[SoSad]

What program is that which Obama provides X boxes. I am familiar with phones provided by Reagan and Bush!

I really shouldn't speak for another poster, but I think dsummoner uses this example for comparison purposes when speaking about the numbers that came out regarding October's deficit.

He started a thread on it here.

[jtowne-swim]

I really shouldn't speak for another poster, but I think dsummoner uses this example for comparison purposes when speaking about the numbers that came out regarding October's deficit.

He started a thread on it here.

Perhaps he has a valid point about spending; but when he uses something as absurd as an X Box, which is not even mentioned in the article, he looks like a tool. The whole "Obamaphone" is a massive ignorance of facts about Life Line. Life Line was suggested, but not implemented by FDR, actually implemented by Reagan, Expanded under CLinton, Expanded to include cell phones under Bush! So to give proper credit for this program it should be called the Reaganphone!

[jtowne-swim]

Texas would become a third world country if they seceded..50% of their budget comes from the USG, the largest employer in Texas is the USG, the Texas budget is about $15 Billion in the red now, imagine what would happen when the USG would relocate all the functions, to include military bases, outside of Texas...I can tell you what will happen, the people in New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma and Arkansas would experience an in-flux of refugess....like I said earlier, people are not thinking this all the way through...

thanks for the article from the constitution...it's sad to think how many people are familiar with the most important document regarding how this country was formed....

Some of these Texans would be re-employed by the government of Texas in similar roles of course people in Texas would notice a large tax increase to pay for these functions, perhaps their multi million dollar high school football spending would have to be curtailed!

[SoSad]

Perhaps he has a valid point about spending; but when he uses something as absurd as an X Box, which is not even mentioned in the article, he looks like a tool. The whole "Obamaphone" is a massive ignorance of facts about Life Line. Life Line was suggested, but not implemented by FDR, actually implemented by Reagan, Expanded under CLinton, Expanded to include cell phones under Bush! So to give proper credit for this program it should be called the Reaganphone!

I took it for what it was, and got a good laugh over the comparison. It's just a way to measure the deficit in October and what it equates to, nothing more, I believe.

I wasn't laughing over the deficit, just the X Box comment.

[ybnormal]

See this for what it is - people are pizzed. We are on the verge of financial collapse and re-electing the buffoons that got us here is only going to make it worse.

"The trouble with SOCIALISM is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher, Prime Minister, Great Britain (1976)

[ybnormal]

From the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."

[RIKMAN]

From the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."

Thanks- some government lovers here have forgotten this. True 200 years ago- true still. It's what scares them the most!

[songfourone]

It does, but not being raised with the 'government owes me' mentality may have something to do with that.

But as of right now there are not better options for you, you are 'stuck' here, having to work for the 'wrong man', but there is a light at the end of the tunnel, right? Singapore, Qatar or Hong Kong, I would be careful for what you wish for.

[dsummoner]

What program is that which Obama provides X boxes. I am familiar with phones provided by Reagan and Bush!

When one doesn't have to worry about paying for one's feeding, housing, breeding, health care, transportation or utilities (those 'things' that responsible adults are supposed to pay for when it comes to themselves and those that they have made)... it means 'free' 40s and 3 X boxes in every pot.

[dsummoner]

But as of right now there are not better options for you, you are 'stuck' here, having to work for the 'wrong man', but there is a light at the end of the tunnel, right? Singapore, Qatar or Hong Kong, I would be careful for what you wish for.

I work for boss (the Missus) and there is no wrong with that.

The Bernanke reinflation of the housing bubble, on extant trendlines, means another year or two in the PRCa. The first stop is a much lower cost of living state in which actual fair share is present though sales tax and no income tax. Should actuary hold (or not hold should the 604 HP MBZ end up in my stable sooner rather than later) there will be nothing tying me to this country for the last half of my life. One that is responsible for oneself makes one's own light (there is no light to be found suckling on poisoned dole teat of the government).