Steven Spielberg's movie about Lincoln is pure BS!!!!!!

[Contumacious]

He freed the slaves in the states that were in rebellion because in felt that they, being in rebellion, had forfeit their constitutional protection to hold property in slaves. .

HUH?

W T F

South Carolina was a free and sovereign state prior to 1787. It decided to VOLUNTARY EXIT just as it decided to VOLUNTARILY ENTER the relationship. So what the heck are you talking about ..."forfeiting anything....bull , mikey

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[bmore_ken]

Doesn't matter I used your word as a segway. It is a literary device.

You seem to do that a lot with my words. I'm honored

[songfourone]

Sad but true

He belongs to the angry old white guy victim coalition.

[Contumacious]

Yeah because we all know the south would have given up their slaves without a fight. Gimme a fing break

How the West (Except for the U.S.) Ended Slavery
by Thomas J. DiLorenzo


The fact that the British, Spanish, French and others ended slavery peacefully — as did the Northern states in the U.S., where slavery existed for over 200 years — is perhaps the court historians' best-kept secret. Most Americans have only heard of how slavery was ended in the Southern states and are unaware of how it was ended peacefully in the Northern states and in the rest of the Western Hemisphere during the 19th century. There were no "wars of emancipation" in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, or Illinois, which were all once slave states."

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[bmore_ken]

Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, or Illinois, which were all once slave states."

Didn't depend on slaves for their economy. Big difference. You're delusional if you think the south was willingly going to give up it's free labor pool

[Smokey 1]

He belongs to the angry old white guy victim coalition.

This thread is about the Lincoln movie not me. Why do you keep trying to hijack threads and turn them into personal attack vehicles for your hatred of anyone who dares see things differently then you?

BTW, if I am old you must be ancient.

[bullmikey]

South Carolina was a free and sovereign state prior to 1787. It decided to VOLUNTARY EXIT just as it decided to VOLUNTARILY ENTER the relationship. So what the heck are you talking about ..."forfeiting anything....bull , mikey.

Having, as you so eloquently put it, made a “VOLUNTARY EXIT” from the Union, South Carolina, no longer being a part of that federal union it quite, was also no longer entitled to the constitutional protections of that union, of which it was no longer a part of, either by quitting or rebellion, right? Thus slaves, being constitutionally defined as property by the federal union could be declared contraband and then confiscated (and set free) by a government that was at war with the supposedly sovereign state of SC. Ditto for the entire Confederacy.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a brilliant political ploy by the Lincoln Administration. It painted the South’s rebellion in terms of the slavery issue alone. This effectively deprived the Confederacy of any hope of foreign intervention on its behalf. Great Britain, which had been dancing around the issue of recognizing the Confederacy, was effectively prevented from doing so, for though the British aristocracy was sympathetic to the South (for economic reasons, as well as a certain social affinity the lords and lordlings of the empire shared with the plantation society of the American South), the masses of the common people throughout the empire would not support a government that allied itself with a slave owning society.

Lincoln, with the bold stroke of a pen, guaranteed that the Confederacy would have to fight the war alone and mostly with its own resources. It was a brilliant move, even if the federal government had no idea what it was supposed to do with all these freed slaves or what was to become of them. That was a can kicked down the road for the sake of winning the war and preserving the union. For the sad truth was that in the average Northerner - though perhaps an abolitionist on principle - was no more likely to live on terms of equality with blacks than the Southerners he was waging war against.

[Contumacious]

Without a doubt Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest presidents and greatest men America has ever produced.

Period.

Only someone who is affiliated with Al Qaeda would make such a statement:

"620,000 Americans had to die (the equivalent of about 6 million deaths standardizing for today's population); more than double that number had to be maimed for life; dozens of Southern cities and towns had to be bombed into rubble; tens of thousands of Southern civilians were justifiably murdered by the U.S. Army; the Constitution had to be suspended in the North; tens of thousands of Northern civilian political dissenters were justly imprisoned without due process; hundreds of opposition newspapers were rightly shut down or destroyed; tens of millions of dollars in private property were justifiably looted by Sherman's army (and others); and although the North's financial cost of the war alone would have been enough to purchase the freedom of all the slaves, that was not an option."

.

[BiggSeth]

There's no vampires in this one.

how about ailens that make bicycles fly?

[bmore_ken]

Only someone who is affiliated with Al Qaeda would make such a statement:

"620,000 Americans had to die (the equivalent of about 6 million deaths standardizing for today's population); more than double that number had to be maimed for life; dozens of Southern cities and towns had to be bombed into rubble; tens of thousands of Southern civilians were justifiably murdered by the U.S. Army; the Constitution had to be suspended in the North; tens of thousands of Northern civilian political dissenters were justly imprisoned without due process; hundreds of opposition newspapers were rightly shut down or destroyed; tens of millions of dollars in private property were justifiably looted by Sherman's army (and others); and although the North's financial cost of the war alone would have been enough to purchase the freedom of all the slaves, that was not an option."

.

All's well that ends well. The best side won and together we became the greatest nation on earth.

[Smokey 1]

All's well that ends well. The best side won and together we became the greatest nation on earth.

Yeah and over 600,000 Americans died for no good reason.

[bullmikey]

No, but he intentionally ignored the agreement they had not to reinforce the fort in order to give him a "reason" to send troops south.

The first shots were fired against Star of the West, a civilian transport hired and authorized by President James Buchanan to resupply and reinforce the garrison of the fort. I believe these shots were fired in February of 1861, a full month before Lincoln’s inauguration. Lincoln had nothing to do with this event. And he certainly didn't break any agreement. As POTUS, he refused to negotiate with the secessionist at all.

[bmore_ken]

Yeah and over 600,000 Americans died for no good reason.

Nahh it was for a very good reason. I understand why you as a white man wouldn't think so though

[Contumacious]

Anyone wanna bet it not only gets nominated for an Oscar but wins one ? Not bad for a movie that is BS.

HUH?

Yo bud , even fictions win Oscars

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)

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[Smokey 1]

Nahh it was for a very good reason. I understand why you as a white man wouldn't think so though

They didn't die to end or continue slavery, on one side they died to preserve the union and on the other side they died in a fight for independence.

[bullmikey]

They didn't die to end or continue slavery, on one side they died to preserve the union and on the other side they died in a fight for independence.

I'm sure if you looked at it from the points of view of the men who fought on both sides of those long blue and butternut firing lines, that is exactly what they would have told you.

[bmore_ken]

They didn't die to end or continue slavery, on one side they died to preserve the union and on the other side they died in a fight for independence.

Without slavery, there's no seccesion and there's no war.

[Smokey 1]

I'm sure if you looked at it from the points of view of the men who fought on both sides of those long blue and butternut firing lines, that is exactly what they would have told you.

And that is exactly what they said in the primary sources that I have read. When the draft was initiated in the north after the Emancipation Proclamation there were riots in New York City by men who refused to fight in the war when it was framed as a fight to free the slaves. Even Grant said that if he thought the war was about freeing slaves he would resign his commision and fight for the other side.

[Smokey 1]

The first shots were fired against Star of the West, a civilian transport hired and authorized by President James Buchanan to resupply and reinforce the garrison of the fort. I believe these shots were fired in February of 1861, a full month before Lincoln’s inauguration. Lincoln had nothing to do with this event. And he certainly didn't break any agreement. As POTUS, he refused to negotiate with the secessionist at all.

But those weren't "shots" he used for his excuse to invade the south. Do you think Lincoln would have left the seceded states alone if they never fired on Sumter or any federal entity?

[ms maggie]

Well this is all very interesting, but the key point is I need to see this movie, love Daniel Day Lewis, love Tommy Lee Jones, love Tony Kushner. Oh and Abe, love him too! Reviews have been good.