Cabrera runs away with MVP

[kudzu]

All in all it's just another stat. Just like OPS and Slugging %, albeit much more thorough. That's why I get irritated when people use stats like that but refuse to even acknowledge WAR as a tool. It's all calculated with the same math.

No, it's not.

SLG and OBP (and thus, OPS) can be calculated with elementary school math by anyone who watches games or reads box scores.

With WAR, you've gotta figure out replacement level. Then positional adjustments (subjective). Then park factors. Then scoring envorinment. Blah, blah, blah...

When WAR tells me that Mike Trout is 3+ wins better than Cabrera, that's a pretty good indication to me he is the better player. No amount of difference in the "human element" can make up 30 runs.

You realize, of course, that those are 30 theoretical runs and 3 theoretical wins ?

[dandrews]

No, it's not.

SLG and OBP (and thus, OPS) can be calculated with elementary school math by anyone who watches games or reads box scores.

With WAR, you've gotta figure out replacement level. Then positional adjustments (subjective). Then park factors. Then scoring envorinment. Blah, blah, blah...



You realize, of course, that those are 30 theoretical runs and 3 theoretical wins ?

Multipilication!! The horror!!

And yes, I realize they are theoretical runs/wins

[kudzu]

Multipilication!! The horror!!

Extralopation, deriviation, regression, the reality !

And yes, I realize they are theoretical runs/wins

Oh well, at least you understand that part.

So why the hell would you defend WAR as "accurate" ?

[dandrews]

Extralopation, deriviation, regression, the reality !



Oh well, at least you understand that part.

So why the hell would you defend WAR as "accurate" ?

You must not have read this this the first time I posted it. Here you go chief.

http://orioles-nation.com/2011/10/03...accurate-2011/

My question to you is, why do you like WAR and sabermetrics in general if they are inaccurate?

[dandrews]

Another good read on WAR misconceptions.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/ind...mitations-war/

[kudzu]

You must not have read this this the first time I posted it. Here you go chief.

http://orioles-nation.com/2011/10/03...accurate-2011/

My question to you is, why do you like WAR and sabermetrics in general if they are inaccurate?

Because they were providing an attempt into measurable insight for the intangible.

I was reading Bill James when you were still in diapers. Or rather, when your daddy decided that a pearl necklace wasn't in the cards that afternoon.

Call me once you get off the teat.

[dandrews]

Because they were providing an attempt into measurable insight for the intangible.

I was reading Bill James when you were still in diapers. Or rather, when your daddy decided that a pearl necklace wasn't in the cards that afternoon.

Call me once you get off the teat.

Is that all you got old man?

[kudzu]

Is that all you got old man?

Are you kidding ? Of course not.

But it will suffice until you come up with a sufficient counter argument to my WAR beat-down three posts ago.

[ivanbalt]

You realize, of course, that those are 30 theoretical runs and 3 theoretical wins ?

For some reason the stats nuts prefer theory to what happens on the field. My simple thinking goes: triple crown in 2012 = MVP.

[LarryN]

For some reason the stats nuts prefer theory to what happens on the field. My simple thinking goes: triple crown in 2012 = MVP.

Luckily, the voters in the BBWAA thought the same way.

[O for the Seventies]

I'm a little sick to my stomach over the way that this MVP debate, featuring two wonderful players who fans should be celebrating, has been reduced to this sniping between so-called SABR guys and so-called old school guys. The guys who have devoted years of time and study to better understanding baseball have created with incredible precision and ingenuity ways of measuring baseball quality (Bill James, et al). I have read and follow their reasoning and agree with 90% of their conclusions (at least the parts that I can follow without having my eyes crossed ).

Nevertheless, I am glad that Miguel Cabrera is the league's MVP, with which I totally agree. One fundamental difference between Trout and Cabrera is that the Detroit Tigers hitched the hopes of their season to Miggy, and he came through as well as a player can. He was their horse. He changed to a position he cannot play as well, for the betterment of the team. He batted cleanup, and he cleaned up. Trout's performance was incredible, but it was without this kind of expectation. He was not the Angel's "horse" in the same manner that Pujols was--or even Torii Hunter (but I suppose he will be in the future). His excellence was a gratuitous addition to the Angel's success (such as it was--third place).

Miggy had to be the man for the Tigers to win, and The Man he was. Miggy is my MVP.

[kudzu]

For some reason the stats nuts prefer theory to what happens on the field. My simple thinking goes: triple crown in 2012 = MVP.

Right, exactly.

The small testes geeks prefer the theoretical to reality.

Me, I'm a big testes geek.