Israel Not Negotiating Ceasefire In Good Faith

[sage]

Reality!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv49RFo1ckQ

[Byng]

Irrelevant, unless you happen to be a player.

And I don't get an opinion, in a fight over 'my imaginary friend in the sky is better than your imaginary friend in the sky', that has been going on since the beginning of time? Okay!

[kudzu]

And I don't get an opinion, in a fight over 'my imaginary friend in the sky is better than your imaginary friend in the sky', that has been going on since the beginning of time? Okay!

It's not a fight as to which imaginary friend is better, it's that one of them is apparently telling its followers to kill everyone else.

There's little worse than righteous fools who are willing to kill for their god.

There's only two solutions:

1) slap some sense into them

2) exterminate them

I'd prefer option 1.

[bullmikey]

And I don't get an opinion, in a fight over 'my imaginary friend in the sky is better than your imaginary friend in the sky', that has been going on since the beginning of time? Okay!

It's a free country. You may opine as much as you like. But your beliefs are irrelevant. Since you are not a player, they carry no weight with those who are the players. You see, it’s what they believe or do not believe that predicates the outcome of their situation. Whatever you or I believe, it’s irrelevant.

[CajunRaven]

It's a free country. You may opine as much as you like. But your beliefs are irrelevant. Since you are not a player, they carry no weight with those who are the players. You see, it’s what they believe or do not believe that predicates the outcome of their situation. Whatever you or I believe, it’s irrelevant.

See Kudzu's post prior to yours.

It's not irrelevant given these folks believe there are only options 1 and 2. If you're not a believer, well, you will be or.......

[Wizard777]

I don't think Hamas' request that Israel stop assassinations in Gaza is untenable. Especially when you consider that the last official they assassinated was working on a long term truce between Palestine and Israel. But if that truce was enacted the Netanyahu wouldn't be able to shoot fish in a barrel as election stunt.

[Byng]

See Kudzu's post prior to yours.

It's not irrelevant given these folks believe there are only options 1 and 2. If you're not a believer, well, you will be or.......

It is also not irrelevant to me when one side (Israel) is going to start this war (if it actually does) knowing that it does not have the capability or the means or the size of force to win a full Regional War, inclusive of Iran, on its own, and has no intention whatsoever in doing so. Because it knows that the minute the United States or the Gulf Oil States gets retaliated against that will drag the United States in, lock stock and barrel.

Israel having achieved its aim of having American troops fight her war for her will all go home and take up a defensive posture in defence of a piece of land no bigger than the State of New Jersey with little or no strategic value to the United States while American blood and treasure again gets poured down the drain.

Yes, I think that warrants my concern and my 2 pennies worth!

[zenwalk]

It is also not irrelevant to me when one side (Israel) is going to start this war (if it actually does) knowing that it does not have the capability or the means or the size of force to win a full Regional War, inclusive of Iran, on its own, and has no intention whatsoever in doing so. Because it knows that the minute the United States or the Gulf Oil States gets retaliated against that will drag the United States in, lock stock and barrel.

That's the bottom line. The adult figures who have stepped forward in the past few months to discredit the Netanyahu "We must get them now before it's too late" plan of attack against Iran says it all. It doesn't take much more than a single nut to turn things ugly in that part of the world.

[Daan]

Sounds like a good plan then. I mean if I were an Israeli and thinking about knocking over Iran; or even if I were an Israeli and not thinking about knocking over Iran. From that perspective, neutralizing Hamas and Hizb`allah sounds like a splendid goal on its own merits, with or without Iran as a motivating factor. On the one hand you have good tactical policy (unless you like being rocketed twenty-four-seven), on the other, commendable strategic thinking, since it's always good to protect your flanks before bunting heads with the big bull.

If I were Hamas and Hizb`allah I’d quit firing those rockets into Israel; the Israeli have something they will never have – a sound operational doctrine for reducing their enemies to piles of smoking rubble. But then again, Hamas and Hizb`allah have Allah on their side, right?

And the Zionists have been proclaiming that all of Palestine is theirs because "GOD gave it to them" some thousands of years ago.

The Zionists have been murdering, stealing, and colonizing since 1947/1948 in order to take back what they claim "GOD gave them".

Both sides have used religious fanaticism to try to justify what they do. In 2008/2009 the Rabbis were encouraging the IDF soldiers to "show no mercy" toward the people of Gaza.

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[bullmikey]

See Kudzu's post prior to yours.

It's not irrelevant given these folks believe there are only options 1 and 2. If you're not a believer, well, you will be or.......

How does your believing that there are options 3, 4, and 5 change any of that? It's what they believe that effects what they do, not what you or I believe. Our beliefs do not matter to them. Thus they are irrelevant.

[bullmikey]

And the Zionists have been proclaiming that all of Palestine is theirs because "GOD gave it to them" some thousands of years ago.

And it might bloody well all belong to them someday, the dumb-arsed Palestinians keep doing what they're doing.

[Byng]

That's the bottom line. The adult figures who have stepped forward in the past few months to discredit the Netanyahu "We must get them now before it's too late" plan of attack against Iran says it all. It doesn't take much more than a single nut to turn things ugly in that part of the world.

That is why for years I have been describing Netanyahu as the most dangerous leader in the Middle East and not the Iranian (can't spell his name) Leader of Iran and getting ridiculed for doing so. Netanayahu has the ability to drag us into a war, not of our own choice. The leader of Iran does not have that ability.

[dsummoner]

That is why for years I have been describing Netanyahu as the most dangerous leader in the Middle East and not the Iranian (can't spell his name) Leader of Iran and getting ridiculed for doing so. Netanayahu has the ability to drag us into a war, not of our own choice. The leader of Iran does not have that ability.

Perhaps you missed Panetta's 'red lines' in regards to the legitimate and heroic Iranian nuclear program?

[beeg jacques]

And the Zionists have been proclaiming that all of Palestine is theirs because "GOD gave it to them" some thousands of years ago.

The Zionists have been murdering, stealing, and colonizing since 1947/1948 in order to take back what they claim "GOD gave them".

Both sides have used religious fanaticism to try to justify what they do. In 2008/2009 the Rabbis were encouraging the IDF soldiers to "show no mercy" toward the people of Gaza.

.

Unless UN General Assembly Resolution 181 mentions God as the basis for creating Israel, complaints about Zionist "proclaimations about God" are irrelevent with regards to the fact of Israel's existance.

Arab/Islamic objections to Israel are based solely on the fact that Israel exists at all.

And the Charter of the democratically elected government of the Palestinian Arabs not only outlines its goal of obliterating Israel, but also uses Islamic scripture as the basis for its explicit calls for the killing of Jews.

[dsummoner]

I don't think Hamas' request that Israel stop assassinations in Gaza is untenable. Especially when you consider that the last official they assassinated was working on a long term truce between Palestine and Israel. But if that truce was enacted the Netanyahu wouldn't be able to shoot fish in a barrel as election stunt.

There will be no long term truce between them. The root cause of the conflict is religious (between Muslims and Jews) and not secular (between Israelis and Palestinians). Peace and truces are but temporary lulls in the broader context of the pervasive religious conflict.

[dsummoner]

And the Zionists have been proclaiming that all of Palestine is theirs because "GOD gave it to them" some thousands of years ago.

The Zionists have been murdering, stealing, and colonizing since 1947/1948 in order to take back what they claim "GOD gave them".

Both sides have used religious fanaticism to try to justify what they do. In 2008/2009 the Rabbis were encouraging the IDF soldiers to "show no mercy" toward the people of Gaza.

.



.

Why stop history in 1947? Let us go back to the 7th Century AD and talk about 'murdering, stealing and colonizing.' The current conflict is a centuries old religious conflict.

[Wizard777]

That is why for years I have been describing Netanyahu as the most dangerous leader in the Middle East and not the Iranian (can't spell his name) Leader of Iran and getting ridiculed for doing so. Netanayahu has the ability to drag us into a war, not of our own choice. The leader of Iran does not have that ability.

Actually they can't. We have no mutual defense treaties with Israel what so ever. We have no legal obligation to defend them in any way. This is why Israel is trying to get into NATO. THEN they would be able to drag us into wars. I don't think our other NATO Allies, especially Turkey, would allow Israel to join NATO. Israel doesn't have the absolute power over their governments that they have over ours.

Israel is a terrorist state: Turkey PM

ISTANBUL / DOHA: Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan described Israel on Monday as a “terrorist state” in carrying out its bombardment of Gaza, underlining hostility for Ankara’s former ally since relations between them collapsed in 2010.

His comments came after nearly a week of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel and Israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip. An Israeli missile killed at least 11 Palestinian civilians including four children in Gaza on Sunday.

“Those who associate Islam with terrorism close their eyes in the face of mass killing of Muslims, turn their heads from the massacre of children in Gaza,” Erdogan told a conference of the Eurasian Islamic Council in Istanbul.

[Wizard777]

There will be no long term truce between them. The root cause of the conflict is religious (between Muslims and Jews) and not secular (between Israelis and Palestinians). Peace and truces are but temporary lulls in the broader context of the pervasive religious conflict.

No the root cause is institutionalized racism on both sides. Even in religious terms the concepts of infidels and goyim are identical in that they dehumanize outsiders as a means of justifying the inhumane treatment of them.

[dsummoner]

The Islamist takeover of government of 'secular' Turkey made the collapse of relations between Turkey and Israel inevitable. This paradigm will also mean the collapse of the US taxpayer bought and paid for peace between Egypt and Israel.

[dsummoner]

No the root cause is institutionalized racism on both sides. Even in religious terms the concepts of infidels and goyim are identical in that they dehumanize outsiders as a means of justifying the inhumane treatment of them.

Religion is NOT a race (you know better than that).

"Goyim" and "infidel" are religious terms... are they not?