Maryland move to Big 10 approved

[slapshot]

pmore108 -

Everything you said is valid.

For the record, however, Maryland is a state that has the highest, or 2nd highest family income in the United States. Since Maryland pulls the majority of it's undergraduates from Maryland, it goes to reason that the majority of kids attending Maryland come from middle-to-upper income families. The data shows that only about 4,500 of UMCP's undergraduates receive any kind of financial aid.

I think if you were to compare the fiancial demographics of students attending PSU and Maryland, they would be similar. That is only a guess, however. Nevertheless, many of the states where Big Ten teams are located are not nearly as affluent, and consequently, I would also suspect family incomes are considerably lower. Does that make them any better? No it doesn't. But based on my own experiences with kids/students....money and humility are (often) inversely related. I went to a private boarding school in NE, and then later on to grad school at an Ivy League school. I met plenty of kids who's parents were well off (mine were not), and they knew it, and they flaunted it. Just a fact of life.

[pmore108]

pmore108 -

Everything you said is valid.

For the record, however, Maryland is a state that has the highest, or 2nd highest family income in the United States. Since Maryland pulls the majority of it's undergraduates from Maryland, it goes to reason that the majority of kids attending Maryland come from middle-to-upper income families. The data shows that only about 4,500 of UMCP's undergraduates receive any kind of financial aid.

I think if you were to compare the fiancial demographics of students attending PSU and Maryland, they would be similar. That is only a guess, however. Nevertheless, many of the states where Big Ten teams are located are not nearly as affluent, and consequently, I would also suspect family incomes are considerably lower. Does that make them any better? No it doesn't. But based on my own experiences with kids/students....money and humility are (often) inversely related. I went to a private boarding school in NE, and then later on to grad school at an Ivy League school. I met plenty of kids who's parents were well off (mine were not), and they knew it, and they flaunted it. Just a fact of life.

I agree with you about flaunting of wealth and humility, generally. I also understand your logic about the majority of md undergrads coming from wealthy families since MD is in general a wealthy state. My experience at college park was that most of the in state students were from middle class families and the out of state students were far wealthier. This makes sense due to the difference in tuition between in and out of state.

The data I found for the number of students recieving aid showed closer to 50%. I found it on this website:

http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?id=163286#finaid

Doesn't mean it is correct or accurate though with the way college numbers are often 'gamed'.

[The Eternal White Belt]

I agree with you about flaunting of wealth and humility, generally. I also understand your logic about the majority of md undergrads coming from wealthy families since MD is in general a wealthy state. My experience at college park was that most of the in state students were from middle class families and the out of state students were far wealthier. This makes sense due to the difference in tuition between in and out of state.

The data I found for the number of students recieving aid showed closer to 50%. I found it on this website:

http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?id=163286#finaid

Doesn't mean it is correct or accurate though with the way college numbers are often 'gamed'.

Being a UMCP grad who grew up in CP, I had a lot of local friends and A LOT of friends from NY/NJ. Keep in mind that my family probably fell smack-dab in the middle in terms of "middle class." I grew up in Berwyn Heights, a very normal middle class neighborhood in CP. Here's my observations:

Most of my friends from High School who were wealthier, left the state for college.

Most of my friends from HS who were not as wealthy, stayed in-state (many went to PGCC for 2 years and transferred) or did not go to college.

Most of the "new" Maryland-raised friends I met in college were wealthier than my family. Not all of them, but a good proportion of them (mostly the ones who did not grow up in PG county).

Most of the out of state friends I made were also wealthier than my family.

I went to grad school at UMUC. Most of the people I met there made me wonder how these people graduated HS, let alone earned a bachelors.

I used to deliver for a liquor store and sometimes I would be amazed at the amount of electronics, nice furniture, etc. that I would see in some of these kid's apartments (and dismayed at the crap tips they would give for me carrying a keg up to the top floor of their apartment building and then putting it in their ice bucket for them. "Thanks for the dollar"... but I digress).

I don't know if I have a point or not. Seems like a lot of kids had more money than me. I was probably jealous. My wife's parents wouldn't let her get a job in school. I sometimes had 3 jobs at once. She is incredibly humble and very good with money and I would spend us into oblivion if given the chance.

I don't think you can make a lot of generalizations about UMCP, except to say "there's a lot of damn NY/NJ kids there...."

[demopublican]

I don't think you can make a lot of generalizations about UMCP, except to say "there's a lot of damn NY/NJ kids there...."

Oh he can and will make lots and lots of generalizations about UMCP students and their families. They might not be accurate but they justify his dislike for the school and the state.

[slapshot]

Oh he can and will make lots and lots of generalizations about UMCP students and their families. They might not be accurate but they justify his dislike for the school and the state.

Generalizations are sometimes wrong, and sometimes right.

Interestingly enough, the previous poster made the generalization that UMCP has a lot of NJ/NY kids. Funny, I've said the very same thing for years. But what would I know, I only have worked here for more than 12 years.

Generalizations are usually based on experiences. And you? What would you know that's relevant - today? About the Big Ten?

[demopublican]

Kids are kids. People and people. Are there cultural differences within institutions? Absolutely. Schools, like businesses, communities, and any groups have established cultures. But I think college kids at big ten schools are a lot like college kids in the ACC. You seem very concerned about how wealthy the parents of UMD's kids are and how that changes them. But college kids in general come from families with more money. I think your dozen years teaching, researching, scrubbing floors, or whatever you do at College Park has destroyed your perspective.

[slapshot]

Kids are kids. People and people. Are there cultural differences within institutions? Absolutely. Schools, like businesses, communities, and any groups have established cultures. But I think college kids at big ten schools are a lot like college kids in the ACC. You seem very concerned about how wealthy the parents of UMD's kids are and how that changes them. But college kids in general come from families with more money. I think your dozen years teaching, researching, scrubbing floors, or whatever you do at College Park has destroyed your perspective.

Sure, college students everywhere have many things in common. But if you don't think these teens/young adults are not also influenced by their environment, then you are very naive. That said, family wealth, rural versus urban upbringings are all part of that environment. The Midwest is predominantly rural, and much less affluent than the Mid-Atlantic, and that does, generally speaking, permeate into the impressionable teen's outlooks and attitudes.

My wife, who is from Atlanta, has commented several times (at stores or restautants) how "nice and helpful" people are in the Midwest. Her observation. Her comment. It is, what it is. Maybe you need to get out more?

Finally, I've spent a lot of time in both settings. Have you? My observations based on my own experiences. But I didn't have to spend time in Maryland and parts of the Midwest to know there was a difference....I saw and experienced that difference in my own state of California (SoCal to NoCal). Yes, the kids in SoCal had quite different interests than many of the kids I met in NoCal. Not better, just different.

[demopublican]

Yes, I have lived in college towns in 9 states and attended or worked for four universities.

I really think you need to move back to a rural area where you respect the culture more. I have never met a negative person that was good at their job.

[slapshot]

Yes, I have lived in college towns in 9 states and attended or worked for four universities.

I really think you need to move back to a rural area where you respect the culture more. I have never met a negative person that was good at their job.

Doubtful. Name a few? Quick, to the Google. Lol.

And I think you need to stop telling people what to think and do.

[demopublican]

As an Archaeologist I traveled quite a bit working on projects. I have lived (six months or so) almost every state on the east coast and quite a few off of it.
I attended and/or worked for St. Mary's College, Texas A&M, University of Maryland, and DePaul.

And the advice is friendly. I like what I do for a living. If I did not I would change. As I have in the past.

[slapshot]

I like what I do for a living. If I did not I would change. As I have in the past.

As do I. As would I.

Just a FYI - Many (engineering) faculty are pretty ambivalent about the undergrad students. They come to class, we instruct/teach, etc. Interactions are at a minimum - for the most part. However, the students who care, and who show interest by seeking out more info, are the one's most of us enjoy interacting with. Entirely different at the grad level, which is where most of my time and efforts are spent....and the majority of these students come from around the globe, and not just the state of Maryland. Similar to the athletic programs, and having the pressure to succeed on the field/ court, engineering departments live, grow and/ or contract based (in large measure) on their research, and not on their undergraduate education. Just a fact of life at a major research institution - which UMCP is.

The point being - I don't have to like, or dislike my undergrad students (most of whom I either don't know, or I like) to enjoy what I am doing, or enjoy working at UMCP. That part of my job is (really) not my primary function.

[demopublican]

You just explained exactly why I think that the system is broken and big schools are a terrible place to get an education.
I did my undergraduate at a small liberal arts school. I knew every professor and they all knew me by my first name. I have kept in touch with a few and I have unfortunately attended more than one funeral. Undergrad pay the bills and make the school. But the high paid professors do not care about them. They care about the grad students or about their research.
I will print up this thread for my teenagers that are looking at schools right now. Thanks.

[slapshot]

You just explained exactly why I think that the system is broken and big schools are a terrible place to get an education.
I did my undergraduate at a small liberal arts school. I knew every professor and they all knew me by my first name. I have kept in touch with a few and I have unfortunately attended more than one funeral. Undergrad pay the bills and make the school. But the high paid professors do not care about them. They care about the grad students or about their research.
I will print up this thread for my teenagers that are looking at schools right now. Thanks.

Happy to be of service.

That said, you might also tell your teenagers - that going to a large research University, like UMCP, does have it's advantages over the smaller schools - especially if they wish to pursue a career in engineering or the sciences. These advantages include, but are not limited to:

(1) A much larger diversity and breadth of courses offered. Not to mention, that these courses may be offered more often (can be important with scheduling conflicts).

(2) Far better, and more extensive research resources/facilities (ie, many undergrads....the brighter ones, at least, often do Senior research projects that are quite useful when looking for a job.

(3) Huge alumni network. Why is that important? Because "alma maters". If you don't think that alumni in a position to hire from their school doesn't happen - a lot - then you need to re-evaluate. It does.

(4) if the smaller school has limited national prestige/attention, that can hurt employment opportunities. I use to work in the private sector for about 8 years. I ran a division, and I did a lot of hiring. I would not sign off on any new hire that came from a school that I knew little about - even if their grades were excellent - for the simple reason that I knew little about their curriculum, and the quality/rigor of the competition at this unknown school. Grades are relative to competition.

The way I look at large public universities - In many ways, we are like the perfect Darwinian environment. The students who need the extra attention, who need to be coddled, usually get eaten up by the better students. The weak don't survive....and in many technical fields, I am fine with that approach. I would rather have the engineer who helped design the next plane I fly on....not needing his hand held to get through college. That's the real world, as cruel as it may sound.

Finally, the last bit of advice I have in picking out a University - If your kids have a pretty good idea what their major might be, focus more on the rankings for that major, or majors....rather than the overall ranking. My kids went to Big Ten schools that had top 10 rankings in each of their respective majors (not the overall ranking)....and both, even though they graduated during this recession, had multiple job offers. Reputation in a particular discipline can pay off in the job market.

[demopublican]

You may be thinking about the good of the airplane. But I am thinking about the good for my kid. I would prefer a good education from a school that cares than a indifferent jerk for a professor.

[slapshot]

You may be thinking about the good of the airplane. But I am thinking about the good for my kid. I would prefer a good education from a school that cares than a indifferent jerk for a professor.

You might be thinking "about the good for my kid", but if they can't find a good job in their field, or get into a top graduate program because nobody has heard of their school....then you really haven't done a very good job in looking out for your kid's best interest.

Another insult from you? OK, we're done.

Good luck to your kids....in the current economic climate, they will need every advantage they can get.

[demopublican]

"Many (engineering) faculty are pretty ambivalent about the undergrad students. They come to class, we instruct/teach, etc. Interactions are at a minimum"

Well I am not sure how else to describe that attitude.

My kids will be fine. As long as they don't grow up to be engineers everything will work out fine.

[kudzu]

If you are going to site ND and/ or Stanford, sorry to disappoint, but they too lower their academic quals to accept premier athletes in revenue sports. Maybe not as much as some other schools, but they do.

No, I'm not going to SITE them. But perhaps that might deserve a CITE.

Don't blame me, it's the benefits my my ACC education. As opposed to whatever hogwash you apparently "learned" in the Pig Ten (Twelve ? Fourteen ? Sixteen ? Jesus, can that Conference even count ?)


Further, both ND and Stanford have financial resources to get the best coaches, that most other schools can only dream of. But it's still about the money. If you don't have the money, and you put academics above sports, you won't be able to compete at a high level...at least on a consistent basis.[/QUOTE]

As for Va - the bigger issue would be, who would want them? They have no tradition/clout in football or basketball (the only two revenue sports), and being stuck in the sticks of so. Virginia, they don't bring anything to the TV market. Not to mention - the small size of the school, translates to a small alumni base, that actually hurts their viewership. Nobody cares what happens to Va. Really, nobody cares.

UVA is the best public university in existence.

If you don't want them, then hey - - you're probably a Pig 10 fan...

[slapshot]

UVA is the best public university in existence.

If you don't want them, then hey - - you're probably a Pig 10 fan...

Nope, far from the best. This statement of your's has repeatedly been debunked as false. Not just by me, but by other posters, as well.

Try again. Fail.

[demopublican]

I really don't know if there is any accurate way to rank universities but here is US News's list:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...ies/top-public

Five Univeristy of California schools in the top ten but UVA shows tied for number two.

[demopublican]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/06/bes...es-09-top.html

Forbes ranks the military acamamies very high and also puts St. Mary's College of Md number 11. Not bad for a school that nobody's ever heard of.