8-2 and nobody is happy

[Dub]

Riiiiight....

And why is a fan base that's intelligent enough to see problems and point out the problems "spoiled"? What have the Ravens "won" aside from a Super Bowl over 10 years ago to "spoil" their fanbase? What it is is a frustrated fan base -- frustrated with 10 years of Billickball and Cameronball, while wasting opportunities when the D was at its strength to become a true contender, instead of a perennial also-ran pretender. (And of course, those apologist "fans" who rush to the scene to try to tell the fans they should be happy with sloppy seconds.)

I just think you are frustrated. Were you bashing Cam after we destroyed the Bengals, or when we beat the Pats, or how about when we beat the Raiders? You are too concerned with style then substance. You are more concerned with how many yards the offense gets or how they look getting those yards opposed to putting points on the board. Below are reasons fans like you are spoiled.

- Made playoffs and won a game each of last 4 years
- Win games when we are outplayed (something good TEAMS do)
- Have best MLB and FS to ever play the game
- Have a QB with winningest record since he came in the NFL
- Sweep division last year
- 2 AFC Championship appearances in last 4 years

[OriginalColtsFan]

I just think you are frustrated. Were you bashing Cam after we destroyed the Bengals, or when we beat the Pats, or how about when we beat the Raiders? You are too concerned with style then substance. You are more concerned with how many yards the offense gets or how they look getting those yards opposed to putting points on the board. Below are reasons fans like you are spoiled.

- Made playoffs and won a game each of last 4 years
- Win games when we are outplayed (something good TEAMS do)
- Have best MLB and FS to ever play the game
- Have a QB with winningest record since he came in the NFL
- Sweep division last year
- 2 AFC Championship appearances in last 4 years

Rah Rah Rah.

[can you hear me now!]

Riiiiight....

And why is a fan base that's intelligent enough to see problems and point out the problems "spoiled"? What have the Ravens "won" aside from a Super Bowl over 10 years ago to "spoil" their fanbase? What it is is a frustrated fan base -- frustrated with 10 years of Billickball and Cameronball, while wasting opportunities when the D was at its strength to become a true contender, instead of a perennial also-ran pretender. (And of course, those apologist "fans" who rush to the scene to try to tell the fans they should be happy with sloppy seconds.)

I think there is a fine line between recognizing flaws (every team has them) and being critical at every turn. I get that people hate Cameron, just as they did Canaugh and other OC's. However, the lack of being in the superbowl has more to do with player execution than it does play calling. People hated Marhibroda and Billcik too. Hell, there is a small but vocal group that hate Harbaugh. Keeping in mind that "fan" is the shortened version of fanatic is kind of important. Fanatics are not known to be very rational at times.

In the last 2 years the Ravens missed out on the SB because of dropped passes. It is that simple. Is that the OCs fault? I don't think so...the wr's got open, Flacco got the ball to them and the wrs failed to make a play. So, if a team is that close to a SB, may be, just may be things are not that bad as some believe.

And that's where the spoiled part comes in...there is nothing wrong with expecting to win, however, thinking you should be in the SB every year is unrealistic. And if that makes me an apologist in your opinion, so freakin be it. The sun will come up tomorrow and life goes on....

[OriginalColtsFan]

I think there is a fine line between recognizing flaws (every team has them) and being critical at every turn. I get that people hate Cameron, just as they did Canaugh and other OC's. However, the lack of being in the superbowl has more to do with player execution than it does play calling. People hated Marhibroda and Billcik too. Hell, there is a small but vocal group that hate Harbaugh. Keeping in mind that "fan" is the shortened version of fanatic is kind of important. Fanatics are not known to be very rational at times.

In the last 2 years the Ravens missed out on the SB because of dropped passes. It is that simple. Is that the OCs fault? I don't think so...the wr's got open, Flacco got the ball to them and the wrs failed to make a play. So, if a team is that close to a SB, may be, just may be things are not that bad as some believe.

And that's where the spoiled part comes in...there is nothing wrong with expecting to win, however, thinking you should be in the SB every year is unrealistic. And if that makes me an apologist in your opinion, so freakin be it. The sun will come up tomorrow and life goes on....

I hear what you're saying, and it's reasonable. I disagree, however, on the point of "being one catch away"...Cameron called a HORRIBLE first quarter, with nothing but 3 and outs, and so it shouldn't have even HAD to come down to that last catch with time running out.

Also, even playing AT NE vs at home is another factor which should never have had to happen if the Ravens had taken care of business against crap teams. Bad coaching in those games as well. So it's just not as simple as you're making it out to be. What IS simple is that the Ravens coaching is subpar, regardless of the W/L record. And it's NOT unreasonable to expect those things to be addressed and improved, and it has nothing to do with being "spoiled". It's not a matter of simply "super bowl or bust". And it's not a matter of "style points" either. It's a matter of consistently being OUTCOACHED, and even going back to the Billick days, fans are sick of bad coaching. It's THAT simple.

[atomic]

I'm happy with the record and unhappy that we have the same idiot stooge running the offense and now another one running the defense. We're probably going to win the division unless Roethlisberger has a miracle recovery but it's annoying to see that we keep having the same problems on the road with the offense.

We have fools running the offense and defense??? The defense has lost two cornerbacks and starting inside linebacker. Lost a starting linebacker and defensensive lineman from last years team. Yet they are 8-2.

I like how everyone has the answer for how to fix the team. We are the best 8-2 team in the league. There are only two teams with better records and we should be 9-1 except for the awful replacement referees in the philly game whom had no idea of even the most basic rules.

Once in a while you just have to say the ravens coaches know better than me. And stop thinking you are smarter than them.

[atomic]

I hear what you're saying, and it's reasonable. I disagree, however, on the point of "being one catch away"...Cameron called a HORRIBLE first quarter, with nothing but 3 and outs, and so it shouldn't have even HAD to come down to that last catch with time running out.

Also, even playing AT NE vs at home is another factor which should never have had to happen if the Ravens had taken care of business against crap teams. Bad coaching in those games as well. So it's just not as simple as you're making it out to be. What IS simple is that the Ravens coaching is subpar, regardless of the W/L record. And it's NOT unreasonable to expect those things to be addressed and improved, and it has nothing to do with being "spoiled". It's not a matter of simply "super bowl or bust". And it's not a matter of "style points" either. It's a matter of consistently being OUTCOACHED, and even going back to the Billick days, fans are sick of bad coaching. It's THAT simple.

Yeah fans who haven't even coached a high school game know better than the coaches of a team that have been 32-10 the last 3 years in the NFL. this is bordering on ridiculous.

[baltimoreron]

As long as we keep being 'outcoached' but winning, count me in.

Not a Cam fan, but definitely a fan of winning. As for the 'frustrated' fans, all I can guess is that you became 'fans' shortly after the Super Bowl win, because I remember the actual frustrating years where I wondered what it would feel like to be a winning team.

Please continue the hate-fest....

[OriginalColtsFan]

As long as we keep being 'outcoached' but winning, count me in.

Not a Cam fan, but definitely a fan of winning. As for the 'frustrated' fans, all I can guess is that you became 'fans' shortly after the Super Bowl win, because I remember the actual frustrating years where I wondered what it would feel like to be a winning team.

Please continue the hate-fest....

No hate fest. In fact, it's the fans who can't seem to take into account other fan's opinions that are different than theirs who engage in most of the hate. What difference does it make to you if someone cares to criticize something that you don't care to criticize? Why does that bother you enough to even comment on it? Who appointed you as the end all or be all as far was what fans should or should not be happy about?

[OriginalColtsFan]

I just think you are frustrated. Were you bashing Cam after we destroyed the Bengals, or when we beat the Pats, or how about when we beat the Raiders?

Another perfect example of the "straw man" argument. 3 games out of 10. In fact, you just made my point: 3 games out of 10 that looked like a real NFL offense. That's 30%. Thanks. Cam gets an F, since 30% is a failure by any standard.

[baltimoreron]

No hate fest. In fact, it's the fans who can't seem to take into account other fan's opinions that are different than theirs who engage in most of the hate. What difference does it make to you if someone cares to criticize something that you don't care to criticize? Why does that bother you enough to even comment on it? Who appointed you as the end all or be all as far was what fans should or should not be happy about?

My opinion, right or wrong, is just that: my opinion. You seem to have a problem with me simply because it is not in line with yours. I don't take my opinion that seriously, and the thought that anyone on this board would is laughable (though highly appreciated).

[jamesdean]

If someone had told any of us that the Ravens would be 8-2 after 10 games, there probably isn't a sane person alive who wouldn't have jumped all over that. And that includes myself. There was a part of me that thought they could go 9-7 this year. I'm sure we're spoiled to a certain extent but mainly it's because the Ravens(outside of opening week and the Raider game) usually win ugly. It can be boring, infuriating, dumbfounding, laughable...whatever word you want to use but that doesn't change the fact that Baltimore is 8-2 and 2 games up on Pittsburgh. Personally, I'll take it. It hasn't been the most exciting season to watch but it could be a lot worse.

[BlandFood]

I'm angry because it's only once a week. Other than that.... I'm in every week and I LOVE my Sunday Ticket.

[Slidemaster]

The guys on ESPN radio have completely ignored the Ravens, basically saying they've just been lucky, only have beaten bad opponenets, and have a bad defense. They basically stopped paying attention when Houston demolished them.

[Kawalimus]

We have fools running the offense and defense??? The defense has lost two cornerbacks and starting inside linebacker. Lost a starting linebacker and defensensive lineman from last years team. Yet they are 8-2.

I like how everyone has the answer for how to fix the team. We are the best 8-2 team in the league. There are only two teams with better records and we should be 9-1 except for the awful replacement referees in the philly game whom had no idea of even the most basic rules.

Once in a while you just have to say the ravens coaches know better than me. And stop thinking you are smarter than them.

The only reason Cam Cameron is still around is because he's a friend of the Harbaughs. Cameron was the first person to hire John Harbaugh as an assistant at Indiana and he also worked with Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.

The guy sucks. Did you not see some of his atrocious 3rd down playcalls? It's ridiculous. The only OC in the entire league worse than him is Brian Schottenheimer.

[OriginalColtsFan]

My opinion, right or wrong, is just that: my opinion. You seem to have a problem with me simply because it is not in line with yours. I don't take my opinion that seriously, and the thought that anyone on this board would is laughable (though highly appreciated).

Baloney. You go out of your way to challenge fans' loyalty because somehow, you put yourself above other fans because you don't agree with their criticisms. THAT'S not just voicing your opinion; it's crossing a definite line. And apparently, you either don't see that, or won't acknowledge it.

Example:

"As for the 'frustrated' fans, all I can guess is that you became 'fans' shortly after the Super Bowl win,"

What does frustration over 10 years ago have to do with the current situation? And again...who are you to question or challenge any other fan? As you said, all you are -- like the rest of us -- is some guy posting on a sports message board.

[Ravens2006]

A typical strawman argument. No one is saying they'd only be happy winning by 20+ points. It's a polarized, irrelevant argument since no one is actually saying or implying that other than you. What most rational, normal people can see without your attempts to obfuscate the matter is that Cam Cameron's offenses simply do not consistently look like other high quality NFL offenses. It's obvious to most fans, and it's obvious to analysts who have taken the time to look closely at the game films, and it was obvious enough to the organization which is why Cameron has been on the hot seat for the past 2 seasons. So the obvious reaction is to say: This is a problem that needs to be fixed, but isn't getting fixed. Yet for you, for some reason, that DOESN'T make sense. Why is that, do you suppose?

Where have I really defended anything Cameron's done this season? Go ahead and do the search. Show me what you've got. I've always maintained that it's a team effort, and for a "bad call" you can usually point out a "missed block" or a "dropped pass" that puts responsibility on the players as much as the coaches. I thought he did a great job with his schemes in 2008, and I think it's gotten progressively worse since then. But blaming everything on Cameron, as some like to do, is as foolish as blaming everything on Flacco, as some like to do. In my opinion...

Back to the original point... a lot of fans (not all) complain incessantly about anything short of total domination. That's all that was being said... not a critique or defense of the offensive game plan. So don't take it off topic and turn it in to something it's not.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Back to the original point... a lot of fans (not all) complain incessantly about anything short of total domination. That's all that was being said... not a critique or defense of the offensive game plan. So don't take it off topic and turn it in to something it's not.

Show one post in which ANY fan has mentioned anything close to: "CAM SUCKS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T ACHIEVE TOTAL DOMINATION".

You can't. Because NO ONE ever said that. Or anything remote to that. So again, you're engaging in a straw man argument (i.e. basing your entire argument on something that doesn't exist -- "straw man".)

What people HAVE said is:

1. Cam sucks because he doesn't know how to use the middle of the field.
2. Cam sucks because he calls in bone headed stupid plays at inopportune times.
3. Cam sucks because he doesn't allow his QB the freedom to audible out of stupid plays that are going to blow up.
4. Cam sucks because he calls for 40 yard passes on 3rd and 2's.
5. Cam sucks because he rolls up the sidewalk against good teams on the road.

THOSE are exactly, verbatim, the kinds of remarks that ARE posted. And it's not even remotely close to what you're charging (total domination, etc.)

[AFKAR7]

Because I did not think the Ravens adequately replaced the talent they lost and combine that with a tough schedule, I thought we were be looking at an 8-8 season. I am happy with the 8-2.

[OriginalColtsFan]

The only reason Cam Cameron is still around is because he's a friend of the Harbaughs. Cameron was the first person to hire John Harbaugh as an assistant at Indiana and he also worked with Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.

The guy sucks. Did you not see some of his atrocious 3rd down playcalls? It's ridiculous. The only OC in the entire league worse than him is Brian Schottenheimer.

This. And that's no way to run an airline.

[Grindelwald]

Lucky it's not 6-4 if not worse. They would not have beaten Pittsburgh if Roethlisberger was playing and they should have lost to Dallas. Feel lucky.