Are We Becoming Israel?

[SomeIdiot]

You make a very good point on the difficulty factor of a terrorist organisation acquiring a nuclear bomb SomeIdiot and IMHO the threat of them acquiring an existing weapon is extremely low.

I had made a quip earlier about Nuclear weapons in the form of "suitcase bombs" laying around the old Soviet Union for anybody to pick-up. But that has never been proven and those weapons if they actually exist would date back at least to the 70's and 80's and any that remained would probably be duds by now. Nuclear weapons need regular maintenance plus they have sophisticated electronic locks that would make it almost impossible for a terrorist to detonate one. And of course over a period of 20 or 30 years no bomb has ever been detonated by anyone other than those held by State Governments. So I think we are overestimating any such terrorist threat.

I agree. I think that the problem is consistently thinking in terms of the worst case scenario when it comes to national security rather than acting based on what tends to happen.

No country has an interest in arming a stateless actor with nuclear weapons since it would almost certainly spell their own doom. The irony is that it's our own aggressive counter-terrorism operations in Pakistan that are most likely to lead to such an organization acquiring a bomb.

[SomeIdiot]

I was being serious. These appeals to singular ideals, predicated upon the emotively based false appeals to nationalist identity, generally do not sit well with me. They tend to subvert rational thought. One need but only look at the voluminous expressions of '**** yeah! Obama and Bigfoot won and Gravedigger lost! 'mericah first and stuffs and 'merican jobs and stuffs' that have left poor Omar weeping and wailing in the corner. Liberty has long been dead in the minds of most Americans as evidenced by the one party of big government system that the US operates under. Instead of liberty, we have the paradigm of individuals using government to force themselves onto others.



The war on X generally works that way with government, of course, being here to 'protect' you (in the general sense).

Again I have to disagree with you. I'm no jingoist and I can see your point but I think that the natural result of this approach is essentially to give up. People who support limited government need to go out and make the case to others. I'm as individualist as the next person but without collective will in favor of an open society there's no way one can be achieved or preserved.

[flyboy56]

You bring up an interesting point. There are thousands of agencies tasked with the secret business. Ironically however, the more people involved in the secret business, the less secrecy. An excellent series by the WPo. Note there's many articles involved.



http://projects.washingtonpost.com/t...eyond-control/

All anyone can say to that information is WOW!

[Byng]

I agree. I think that the problem is consistently thinking in terms of the worst case scenario when it comes to national security rather than acting based on what tends to happen.

No country has an interest in arming a stateless actor with nuclear weapons since it would almost certainly spell their own doom. The irony is that it's our own aggressive counter-terrorism operations in Pakistan that are most likely to lead to such an organization acquiring a bomb.

Although I am in full agreement with you that our drone attacks in Northern Pakistan are not helpful to the general stability of Pakistan and would also agree that we should not be doing it, don't ever get sucked in by the public statements that are put out by the Pakistani Government and what is almost certainly being said privately by the Pakistani Government or its security forces.

If the truth be known, we are probably taking out more terrorists that are a threat to them than any number that are a direct threat to us.

I don't share your fear of Pakistani Nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands but I do fear a Nuclear confrontation between Pakistan and India. The problem will likely occur like it did in the early 2000's when we managed to pull Pakistan and India back from the brink of a conventional war.

If that was to happen then the sheer size of Indian Forces relative the Pakistani force would almost certainly mean an Indian victory which is the main reason that Pakistan has Nuclear weapons in the first place. Under those circumstances I feel pretty certain that Pakistan would conduct a Nuclear attack and of course India would probably retaliate.

When it comes to the possible use of Nuclear weapons that is almost certainly where it will happen, if it happens. But it will be between State actors IMHO!

[BlandFood]

Zeeeeee Jooooo's, Zeeeeeee Jooooooo's, they no like monkeys and animals, Zeeeeee Joooooo's are coming!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0uR_xwMyT4c/0.jpg

[SomeIdiot]

Although I am in full agreement with you that our drone attacks in Northern Pakistan are not helpful to the general stability of Pakistan and would also agree that we should not be doing it, don't ever get sucked in by the public statements that are put out by the Pakistani Government and what is almost certainly being said privately by the Pakistani Government or its security forces.

If the truth be known, we are probably taking out more terrorists that are a threat to them than any number that are a direct threat to us.

I don't share your fear of Pakistani Nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands but I do fear a Nuclear confrontation between Pakistan and India. The problem will likely occur like it did in the early 2000's when we managed to pull Pakistan and India back from the brink of a conventional war.

If that was to happen then the sheer size of Indian Forces relative the Pakistani force would almost certainly mean an Indian victory which is the main reason that Pakistan has Nuclear weapons in the first place. Under those circumstances I feel pretty certain that Pakistan would conduct a Nuclear attack and of course India would probably retaliate.

When it comes to the possible use of Nuclear weapons that is almost certainly where it will happen, if it happens. But it will be between State actors IMHO!

I don't share your optimism about Pakistan's ability to control its nuclear arsenal. I've read reports that they've become so jittery they're actually driving weapons around in armored convoys which strikes me as a great way to lose track of something. I also don't know who our drones are primarily killing, though I am pretty certain that they're increasing local resentment towards the United States. I know people over here wouldn't be too happy with a foreign government floating drones around, occasionally raining missiles on people.

[Byng]

I don't share your optimism about Pakistan's ability to control its nuclear arsenal. I've read reports that they've become so jittery they're actually driving weapons around in armored convoys which strikes me as a great way to lose track of something. I also don't know who our drones are primarily killing, though I am pretty certain that they're increasing local resentment towards the United States. I know people over here wouldn't be too happy with a foreign government floating drones around, occasionally raining missiles on people.

The fear in Pakistan over their Nuclear weapons is a fear of the United States not a fear of militant extremists. Since the bin Laden attack without informing Pakistan and the increased hype in the US about Nuclear insecurity in Pakistan and watching our recent (relatively speaking)preemptive invasion of Iraq coupled with our saber rattling with Iran, has caused increased paranoia in Pakistan of what US intentions really are. They fear US intervention to seize and/or destroy their Nuclear Weapons not a militant terrorist problem from within.

[flyboy56]

The fear in Pakistan over their Nuclear weapons is a fear of the United States not a fear of militant extremists. Since the bin Laden attack without informing Pakistan and the increased hype in the US about Nuclear insecurity in Pakistan and watching our recent (relatively speaking)preemptive invasion of Iraq coupled with our saber rattling with Iran, has caused increased paranoia in Pakistan of what US intentions really are. They fear US intervention to seize and/or destroy their Nuclear Weapons not a militant terrorist problem from within.

Certainly you are just making a guess Byng? It would start a war between the US and Pakistan if we were to seize Pakistan's nukes. Tension between the Taliban and Pakistanis have elevated with the recent attempted murder of the young girl who was a spokesperson for educational rights for girls/women.

[Byng]

Certainly you are just making a guess Byng? It would start a war between the US and Pakistan if we were to seize Pakistan's nukes. Tension between the Taliban and Pakistanis have elevated with the recent attempted murder of the young girl who was a spokesperson for educational rights for girls/women.

Hmm! The Taliban just shot a little girl on a school bus, we had better move our Nuclear weapons just in case they are the next target!