That was an incredible 25 minutes of football by Flacco !!

[West Chester Raven]

Most of the football fans that I talk to (that are not Ravens fans) seem to think that the Ravens win in spite of Joe, not because of him. I have to admit that I tend to agree with that for the most part.

I see him as a mid level quarterback at best, certainly not "elite" as he so desperately wants to be. He does do one thing extraordinarily well though... he manages to not lose us too many games. The Ravens are winners with him at QB, and that's all that matters in the long run. If you would have told me before the season started that the Ravens were 9-2 at this point, I would have wondered what you were smoking.

Back to Joe, he gets a lot of credit for having the most wins in his first 4 years, but you have to wonder how some of the other QB's in the league would have done here over the years with our D and Ray Rice in the back field.

I do think that the opinion of Joe is what it is because he rarely puts up "superstar" numbers. A lot of the time his numbers are just plain ugly. Maybe that's his fault, maybe it's due to Cameron and the play calls. If that's the case, and I've said this before, if I'm Flacco, and I truly want to be an "elite" quarterback, maybe he needs to take matters into his own hands and "boycott" Cameron's plays if he feels like he can call better ones. He is the "franchise" quarterback of the Baltimore Ravens, what are they going to do... bench him?

Whether it's due to Cameron's lousy play calls, or his own ability, most fans will not see him as being "elite" until he puts up better numbers. Nothing will change that "winning in spite of" perception that most non Ravens fans have...

Excellent post. Now, the muppet man is infintely smarter and wiser than you (he'll be glad to point this out) but you hit the nail on the head. I live up in the Philly area ( I have to for work) and you are right - most fans see him as you described.

[can you hear me now!]

Including the man who threw the pass. All this "vision and analysis" stuff is a bunch of bunk! You and I obviously see it. It was a dumpoff pass pass pure and simple. It was conceding defeat in the situation. It was Ray Rice. Ray Rice who saved the day and kept us alive. Now - after that, I must say the O did wake up and start making the plays they should be making. But to pretend that there was any sort of vision or foresight on throwing to Rice was BS. It was a checkdown.

conceding defeat...have to admit, you are a subject matter expert on being defeated...consider this analysis of the 4th and 29 play to be more proof you know very little about football...


I found this analysis here --> http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/...a-f9c03e74c0d8

Ron Jaworksi, using the coaching tape, did the best. First, “Jaws” complimented the call by Cam Cameron. As Jaworski illustrated, Cam had four players streak up the field – Jacoby Jones, Anquan Boldin, Dennis Pitta and Torrey Smith. As these four neared the first-down distance, they were equal distance from each other across the field, and there were seven Chargers in the neighborhood.

Second, “Jaws” then complimented Joe Flacco’s read of the play. “Joe sees seven guys covering four, and Joe will have to throw it over 35 yards to reach any of his receivers. He wisely checks the ball down to Ray Rice.” Then Ron showed the magic of the play: “Note when Rice catches the ball, he’s almost 20 yards from the nearest downfield defender. Joe has now given Ray a chance to make the play.”


you are the stereotypical internet genius who, when pushed, is exposed as a know-nothing loud mouth.....more EPIC FAIL on your part...

[jamesdean]

Excellent post. Now, the muppet man is infintely smarter and wiser than you (he'll be glad to point this out) but you hit the nail on the head. I live up in the Philly area ( I have to for work) and you are right - most fans see him as you described.

That's how I've seen him from the beginning too. A good quarterback, who if he minimizes mistakes, will be good enough to lead this team to a Super Bowl. Nothng more, nothing less. He's never going to be an "elite" quarterback because he just doesn't have that kind of talent. I accepted that a long time ago and saved myself a ton of aggrivation. But it could be a lot worse and I'm content having Flacco behind center.

[RavingManiac]

That's how I've seen him from the beginning too. A good quarterback, who if he minimizes mistakes, will be good enough to lead this team to a Super Bowl. Nothng more, nothing less. He's never going to be an "elite" quarterback because he just doesn't have that kind of talent. I accepted that a long time ago and saved myself a ton of aggrivation. But it could be a lot worse and I'm content having Flacco behind center.

I think Flacco does have the talent. He has shown it against the Patriots in the playoffs last year and maybe a couple of games this year. I think it's a mental thing with him or maybe a confidence thing. Either way, I just wish there was a pill we could give him before every game to get his mind right.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I think Flacco does have the talent. He has shown it against the Patriots in the playoffs last year and maybe a couple of games this year. I think it's a mental thing with him or maybe a confidence thing. Either way, I just wish there was a pill we could give him before every game to get his mind right.

The "pill" is to remove the Cam Cameron cancer/blockage, and allow Joe to do what he's capable of doing. Why you can't or won't see or admit that is beyond me. Cameron simply does not encourage or foster creativity, confidence building, etc. He demands obedience. Several players have stated that Cameron is NEVER wrong, NEVER takes full responsibility for his mistakes, and that sort of attitude simply does not pave the way to confidence and growth on the part of an NFL QB. Sometimes, the most obvious understanding and reasoning is the best. And this is the way it is and always has been with Cam Cameron.

[RavingManiac]

The "pill" is to remove the Cam Cameron cancer/blockage, and allow Joe to do what he's capable of doing. Why you can't or won't see or admit that is beyond me. Cameron simply does not encourage or foster creativity, confidence building, etc. He demands obedience. Several players have stated that Cameron is NEVER wrong, NEVER takes full responsibility for his mistakes, and that sort of attitude simply does not pave the way to confidence and growth on the part of an NFL QB. Sometimes, the most obvious understanding and reasoning is the best. And this is the way it is and always has been with Cam Cameron.

Number one: What is Joe capable of doing?

Number two: Where did you hear that several players have stated the Cameron is NEVER wrong, NEVER takes full responsibility for his mistakes? Which players have stated this?

You ask me why I can't see that Cam is the problem. It's because I see players who are open and Flacco cannot get them the ball on a consistent basis. He has the talent to but will lay an egg in a lot of games. With that said, I expect him to put up pro bowl numbers next week. If I am wrong about that then you can throw that in my face. Just out of curiosity, How do you think Flacco played yesterday?

[OriginalColtsFan]

Number one: What is Joe capable of doing?

Number two: Where did you hear that several players have stated the Cameron is NEVER wrong, NEVER takes full responsibility for his mistakes? Which players have stated this?

You ask me why I can't see that Cam is the problem. It's because I see players who are open and Flacco cannot get them the ball on a consistent basis. He has the talent to but will lay an egg in a lot of games. With that said, I expect him to put up pro bowl numbers next week. If I am wrong about that then you can throw that in my face. Just out of curiosity, How do you think Flacco played yesterday?

It was widely reported that Cameron is a control freak who never acknowledges his mistakes. (Former TE Wilcox and others stated exactly that.)

You didn't see the TD pass to Smith in the end zone that Smith couldn't corral? You didn't see the pass that Smith blew in the opening drive deep in Steeler's territory? You didn't see the 2 passes that hit Boldin RIGHT IN THE HANDS that he couldn't catch? etc. etc. etc. You see what you want to see, man. And that's why these discussions are unproductive. And it's not like this chit with Cameron's problems have just popped up; it's been going on for YEARS. Why else do you think he was on the hot seat from his own FO, for Pete's sake?

How do I think Joe played yesterday? Fair, under the circumstances. Smith catches the TD pass in the end zone that Joe put right on his hands the way he should have, and we're not even having this discussion. Same with Boldin, and even Rice dropped a pass right in his hands. And Cameron's game calling is so bizarre it's impossible to even accurately assess much of anything with the offense. But for Joe...I'd give him a "C" grade, for whatever that's worth.

[durango46]

It's simple to me....

Flacco and Cam need to be separated....

Flacco isn't going anywhere. They will franchise him. Only then will we find out if Joe has what it takes.

that said.....give Cam his walking papers at years end


and the defense scheme wasn't much better

[OriginalColtsFan]

It's simple to me....

Flacco and Cam need to be separated....

Flacco isn't going anywhere. They will franchise him. Only then will we find out if Joe has what it takes.

that said.....give Cam his walking papers at years end


and the defense scheme wasn't much better

But Cam ISN'T going anywhere. It was reported earlier in an Aaron Wilson fan chat that the FO is not unhappy with Cameron now. So the problems will continue at least for one more year. After that, Joe can do what he thinks is best for him. If I were him, I'd look elsewhere. Baltimore is where QBs go to die.

[West Chester Raven]

It's simple to me....

Flacco and Cam need to be separated....

Flacco isn't going anywhere. They will franchise him. Only then will we find out if Joe has what it takes.

that said.....give Cam his walking papers at years end


and the defense scheme wasn't much better

I can definitely see the franchise tag being used while the team buys time to make more evaluation on exactly what we have with the QB. A big time extension with champagne uncorked and high fives is all but lost. That ain't happening - unless we light it up the rest of the way. It is a tough road. I'd love to see it, but I don't think Joe has it in him.

[West Chester Raven]

The "pill" is to remove the Cam Cameron cancer/blockage, and allow Joe to do what he's capable of doing. Why you can't or won't see or admit that is beyond me. Cameron simply does not encourage or foster creativity, confidence building, etc. He demands obedience. Several players have stated that Cameron is NEVER wrong, NEVER takes full responsibility for his mistakes, and that sort of attitude simply does not pave the way to confidence and growth on the part of an NFL QB. Sometimes, the most obvious understanding and reasoning is the best. And this is the way it is and always has been with Cam Cameron.

So, the team with one of the most highly regarded front-offices in the league has this all wrong, right? They like Cam just fine and don't read the same blogs that you do? They don't know the dirt on Cam, right? Hmmm. I guess it is possible, but it is also possible that they see Cam's hands tied. He can really only call plays that the staff has confidence Joe can execute.
The confidence building and nurturing time is well past for Joe. He should be taking charge of the team and should have earned the trust of the coaching staff by now.

[durango46]

But Cam ISN'T going anywhere. It was reported earlier in an Aaron Wilson fan chat that the FO is not unhappy with Cameron now. So the problems will continue at least for one more year. After that, Joe can do what he thinks is best for him. If I were him, I'd look elsewhere. Baltimore is where QBs go to die.

guess Mr Harbaugh better get used to all the negativity now and even more in the future.

with that said...he can go to

I just want a functional offense with some consistency.....with Cam and Joe
that ain't happening. It's been my opinion that there is a disconnect between the two that just may be irreversible. I don't even think they like each other.

Love to hear some honest answers to that question

[OriginalColtsFan]

guess Mr Harbaugh better get used to all the negativity now and even more in the future.

with that said...he can go to

I just want a functional offense with some consistency.....with Cam and Joe
that ain't happening. It's been my opinion that there is a disconnect between the two that just may be irreversible. I don't even think they like each other.

Love to hear some honest answers to that question

Those types of "honest answers" are almost never forthcoming. But as I stated at the outset of the year -- given the clear disconnect, the decision to bring back Cameron in Joe's contract extension year was a huge mistake. And just about everything I've seen so far this year has confirmed that belief.

[RavingManiac]

So, the team with one of the most highly regarded front-offices in the league has this all wrong, right? They like Cam just fine and don't read the same blogs that you do? They don't know the dirt on Cam, right? Hmmm. I guess it is possible, but it is also possible that they see Cam's hands tied. He can really only call plays that the staff has confidence Joe can execute.
The confidence building and nurturing time is well past for Joe. He should be taking charge of the team and should have earned the trust of the coaching staff by now.

Excellent post. You summed it up pretty well. I just read on one of these threads tonight that Cam may not know how to design certain plays over the middle of the field. I mean shouldn't common sense take over at some point and tell you that Cam is an NFL offensive coordinator? He has many years of experience. If he didn't know how to design plays for Flacco to throw over the middle of the field, couldn't he just get a hold of some other team's game film and use their designed plays and just act like they are his plays or something? I mean, is he that stupid that he hasn't thought of that? If he was that stupid, shouldn't Harbaugh jump in and help him out and tell him to look at other team's game film and just copy their plays? If Harbaugh is too stupid then shouldn't Ozzie jump in and tell Cam to do the same thing? It's actually pretty comical that these posters (cough OCF cough) think Cam is that inept. I've never coached but don't high school coaches know how to design plays over the middle? Hasn't it occurred to some of these people that maybe Flacco doesn't do too well in practice throwing over the middle? As I have said a thousand times, Flacco has all the talent and abilities to be an elite QB, he just does not have the motivation week in and week out. Maybe motivation is a bad word. It is something mental with him, I believe. I think he will put up incredible numbers this week because he knows he has something to prove.