I knew Johnny would fold

[flyboy56]

If you read the transcripts of Rice's statements, she didn't give many absolute answers. Most of her answers were open ended and followed by things like "we'll have to wait til the investigation is complete." For whatever reason, Hillary Clinton was unavailable that day. Rice was the next highest diplomatic person in the administration and she was on those shows to talk about Iran and Israel.

If anything was being covered up, I think it was the CIA's operation in Benghazi. Which only came to light after it was outed during the House committee hearings...

But their are other more important questions that need to be answered concerning the lead up to the attack. I posted a link to the C-SPAN coverage of Congress' first investigation. You should watch it if you haven't already.

[Byng]

I'm afraid that's probably true. We still don't have the full story on the Bay of Pigs and most of those actors are long dead!

I'm not sure that will be the case with this incident ms maggie, because with so many people involved and the Republicans turning the incident into a public circus it is going to be very difficult for anybody to cover this one up.

Because the cat is already out of the bag that this was a CIA Operation, there really isn't anything to cover up except what the CIA clandestine operations were and what Ambassador Stevens involvement was.

My guess is that we will probably get a sanitised version of the events, something along the lines that the CIA, with the knowledge and blessing of the Libyan Government were involved in cleaning up Libya in general and the Benghazi area in particular of weapons left over from the Qaddafi regime. And if that was the case (and we will probably never know for certain) omitting that rather than destroying those weapons we were shipping them off to Turkey to be given to the opposition forces in Syria to help with their fight against the Syrian government.

They will probably explain the role of Ambassador Stevens as the go between the CIA operations and the Libyan government and that Stevens was just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If in fact they tell us that much.

[soulflower]

But their are other more important questions that need to be answered concerning the lead up to the attack. I posted a link to the C-SPAN coverage of Congress' first investigation. You should watch it if you haven't already.

I agree that there are questions that still need to be answered about the security situation for the Ambassador. Every second wasted on Susan Rice's statements the weekend after the attacks distracts from legitimate questions being asked...

[Byng]

Alright, saying you are right, and the Ambassador was responsible for his own security, then why was the extension of security turned down when it was requested several months prior? Doesn't sound like he had much say in his security.

Are you trying not to understand? The Ambassador had all of the security he needed to conduct his job at the Embassy in Tripoli, including but not limited to United States Marines.

Once he leaves that security then he becomes responsible for his own security through the host country, for any trips outside of the Embassy that he chooses to make. We are guests in the country, not occupiers and as such we cant just deploy security forces anywhere our little heart desires and especially in Benghazi at a Consulate we have vacated! Why chance losing American lives to defend bricks and mortar that we are officially not using anymore?

[flyboy56]

Are you trying not to understand? The Ambassador had all of the security he needed to conduct his job at the Embassy in Tripoli, including but not limited to United States Marines.

Once he leaves that security then he becomes responsible for his own security through the host country, for any trips outside of the Embassy that he chooses to make. We are guests in the country, not occupiers and as such we cant just deploy security forces anywhere our little heart desires and especially in Benghazi at a Consulate we have vacated! Why chance losing American lives to defend bricks and mortar that we are officially not using anymore?

Host country security? Does this include local militias? Wouldn't that be like assigning one of our own home grown good ol' boy militia groups to protect an Ambassador from another country when they leave the Washington area? And if a State Department security supervisor assigned to the Benghazi area places a request for extending military security forces already present, because he placed concerns regarding the local militia not being probably trained to do the job, should his concerns be ignored? If you haven't watched the C-SPAN investigation already, you should so you and I can be on the same page with this.

[Byng]

Host country security? Does this include local militias? Wouldn't that be like assigning one of our own home grown good ol' boy militia groups to protect an Ambassador from another country when they leave the Washington area? And if a State Department security supervisor assigned to the Benghazi area places a request for extending military security forces already present, because he placed concerns regarding the local militia not being probably trained to do the job, should his concerns be ignored? If you haven't watched the C-SPAN investigation already, you should so you and I can be on the same page with this.

Let us try this one more time!

Let us accept for the sake of argument that the State Departments requests for extra security were as you say, "turned down". Obviously, whether that decision was right or wrong, Ambassador Stevens, our head man and decision maker made the right decision and vacated the Benghazi Consulate and moved all State Department employees to the heavily fortified and American defended (at least from the inside) Embassy in Tripoli.

So we now have an empty piece of real estate in Benghazi so in consequence, nothing to defend. Obviously we don't want it vandalised and looted (or though any classified information was long since removed). So the Libyan Government subcontracted security to a local militia to pull the flag up once a day and water the plants and take care of the landscaping.

And the rest I have tried to answer for you in my previous posts.

I have to chuckle at you mentioning C-Span, public media, as your source because all I hear from the right is that 'public media' is so biased to the left, but the minute it suits your case to reference it, it becomes the source of all truth and the font of all wisdom!

[flyboy56]

[QUOTE=Byng;8207737]Let us try this one more time!

Let us accept for the sake of argument that the State Departments requests for extra security were as you say, "turned down".

C-SPAN provides no opinionated commentary. Strictly recording and broadcasting. It is neutral. And if you would watch the investigation you would see exactly who were the two very competent security supervisors who did in fact request an extension twice and were turned down twice. One of the guys may have lost his job in Benghazi for refusing to orders not to request it again. But he did, and more forcefully. So again, until you watch this program so we can at least find common ground on the lack of quality security prior to the attack, we should just discontinue this debate. And surprise surprise, I like C-SPAN programming. Hope that doesn't disappoint you in anyway. No one can always be correct in their assumptions, right?

[Byng]

[quote=flyboy56;8207746]

Let us try this one more time!

Let us accept for the sake of argument that the State Departments requests for extra security were as you say, "turned down".

C-SPAN provides no opinionated commentary. Strictly recording and broadcasting. It is neutral. And if you would watch the investigation you would see exactly who were the two very competent security supervisors who did in fact request an extension twice and were turned down twice. One of the guys may have lost his job in Benghazi for refusing to orders not to request it again. But he did, and more forcefully. So again, until you watch this program so we can at least find common ground on the lack of quality security prior to the attack, we should just discontinue this debate. And surprise surprise, I like C-SPAN programming. Hope that doesn't disappoint you in anyway. No one can always be correct in their assumptions, right?

The last time I checked, the responsibility for security in Libya and the person that makes all of the decisions on the ground in Libya, is our Ambassador in Libya not two "security supervisors" or anybody else. I don't think I need to post a link for that, do I?

[flyboy56]

[QUOTE=Byng;8207753]

The last time I checked, the responsibility for security in Libya and the person that makes all of the decisions on the ground in Libya, is our Ambassador in Libya not two "security supervisors" or anybody else. I don't think I need to post a link for that, do I?

Maybe you are "dead right" on this Byng. And so are 4 good Americans.

[Byng]

[quote=flyboy56;8207763]

Maybe you are "dead right" on this Byng. And so are 4 good Americans.

We finally agree, and hopefully the many investigations being conducted, none more-so than the State Department investigation led by Admiral Mullen our retired and well respected, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a retired Senior State Department Diplomat and former Ambassador (who's name escapes me) will provide us the answers we are looking for.

And for all of those posters still trashing Secretary of State Clinton for not appearing on TV to explain herself, as Secretary Of State it is her job to present the results of that investigation into Benghazi to the United States Congress in its entirety. Secretary Clinton has stated that she fully intends to do that and will not stand down as Secretary of State until that responsibility has been completed.

[Omaha Beach]

The point you are missing, is that with the Benghazi Consulate having been evacuated by the State Department weeks earlier, because of the rising tensions, there was nothing but bricks and mortar in Benghazi to secure or defend. The CIA conducting covert operations are responsible for their own defense and security and if Ambassador Stevens was working with the CIA he would have had that same responsibility.

I have been part of a team deploying agents and special forces numerous times for clandestine operations and each and every one of them knows that they are responsible for their own security and if something goes wrong nobody is coming in to rescue them and nobody including their families will be told what happened with the exception that they will not be coming home.

The ONLY reason you know about this attack and the 4 who were killed is because a United States Ambassador was listed among the dead.

Christ almighty here we go again with James Bond. Did Bond in any of Flemings novels wind up a real estate broker in Delaware? The US Ambassador was not a special agent or member of any special forces team. He and his staff were asking for additional protection at least a month before he was killed. There was a Marine Force Recon unit in Sigonella on stand by that could have been airlifted to Libya within two hours of the attack, five hours before those men were killed. The cowardly towel heads would have taken off at the first sight of them

[Byng]

Christ almighty here we go again with James Bond. Did Bond in any of Flemings novels wind up a real estate broker in Delaware? The US Ambassador was not a special agent or member of any special forces team. He and his staff were asking for additional protection at least a month before he was killed. There was a Marine Force Recon unit in Sigonella on stand by that could have been airlifted to Libya within two hours of the attack, five hours before those men were killed. The cowardly towel heads would have taken off at the first sight of them

Then explain to us all Omaha Beach what exactly it was that Ambassador Stevens was doing in a weeks earlier vacated Consulate with no security and a bunch of undercover CIA Operatives posing as State Department employees and conducting clandestine operations? We are all waiting with baited breath for your insight and wisdom!

[Byng]

...........still waiting with baited breath, for your insight and wisdom, Omaha Beach?