Bigfoot/Sasquatch Proven A Human Hybrid Via DNA Study

[Eastside Terp]

Dude, on its website, the BFRO lists "The Legend of Boggy Creek" as a documentary.

lol , what more proof could you ask for ........

we haven't had science threads like this since RC left .......

[OldBay]

old19 -

It seems to me that a Bigfoot/human hybrid might make a pretty decent prison guard.

Take a look at the handle for the forum's Bigfoot expert and connect the dots. He's obviously a Ravens scout or an agent looking for new clients. Some day Ray Lewis will retire and then this guy will sign the first Bigfoot to play in the NFL.

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

Gorillas' certainly use tools..all Apes do to some extent.

"Most observed instances of tool use in great apes are directly related to processing food, such as chimpanzees using sticks to fish for termites and rocks to crack nuts."

Gorillas' are considered "lower order" in their tool use, but some of your comments seem to contradict your assertions. In other words, You don't seem to be digging any deeper than the reality show level. You state "These things are way more intelligent", but your understanding of much more commonly known animals is very limited. And these are well documented, studied and clearly filmed animals. Yet you're super confident of Bigfoots' abilities and intelligence?

Logic would say if they indeed exist, they would have to be extremely intelligent to avoid detection by their only possible enemy: modern man. How else do they survive? I agree there are few clear photos, but some do exist like the Patterson Gimlin Film for example. It is fairly clear. Also there is a recording by a guy named Freeman that clearly shows something similar with casting of tracks to support it.

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

I don't believe, even with what you link to and with your enthusiasm, that any population of 9 foot tall, 500 lb+ creatures could possibly escape a single clear picture or video, or have their remains never found.

"supposedly outrun a horse"? How was that determined and who says so?

You seem to lack any skepticism at all concerning something you've never seen, and that has really never been clearly photographed or found in any form, dead or alive. Maybe there is something to this...new animals are discovered all the time. Not many 9 foot tall, 500 lb uprights that inhabit North America, but there are new discoveries and I agree that to outright take the position that such a thing is 100% impossible is as closed minded as you are, lets say, open minded.

Thing is, I'd argue that folks in your camp really have the disadvantage...

Look, what you say here is fun and works the imagination..sort of like ghosts and UFOs. But to steal a phrase, if Bigfoot didn't exist, Man would find it necessary to create him.

People want to believe, thats what makes us special. Reminds me of Loch Ness. It's been long proven that the Loch simply doesn't contain the amount of food to support a creature of Nessies' reported size, but that doesn't stop the Loch Ness Monster tourist, film, book trade. It's sort of a combination of peoples fascination and desire to believe, and marketing to make money.

Actually those who believe Bigfoot exists have the advantage as it is impossible to prove something does NOT exist. As common sense would also dictate any animal that lives full times in the wild knows its surrounds much better than occasional interlopers, in the form of more civilized human beings. Ergo, they have an advantage in hiding, concealing themselves and in effect, observing the intruders and avoiding detection. Wood knocks, howls and whoops would serve them well. They are also reported to imitate owls and birds. Sound pretty intelligent to me and they interbred with humans which would make them extremely so.

[pepper]

Logic would say if they indeed exist they would have to be extremely intelligent to avoid detection by their only possible enemy: modern man. How else do they survive? I agree there are few clear photos but some do exist like the Patterson Gimlin Film for example. It is fairly clear. Also there is a recording by a guy named Freeman that clearly shows something similar with casting of tracks to support it.

If you're familiar with that film clips history, and the history of those involved, you must know it's far from definitive proof of anything. You do know the story behind that film clip, right?

"Wood knocks, howls and whoops would serve them well. They are also reported to imitate owls and birds."

Here, you're just making stuff up or rather repeating stuff other people have claimed. Why would a 9 foot tall, 500 Lb animal mimic a bird to avoid detection? Such a creature would rule it's environment and obviously make quick work of anything it considered a threat. Imagine a grizzly or brown bear imitating a bird in order to scare off a preditor (man) half it's size.

Not trying to be a buzzkill, and this stuff is interesting.

But saying they can outrun a horse, or that they are "reported" to imitate owls and birds...who makes such claims and what do they have to back that up?

It's an incredible amount of knowledge and understanding of a creature you have to admit has never been actually studied first hand and up close.

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

http://bigfootencounters.com/articles/zana.htm

If you're familiar with that film clips history, and the history of those involved, you must know it's far from definitive proof of anything. You do know the story behind that film clip, right?

"Wood knocks, howls and whoops would serve them well. They are also reported to imitate owls and birds."

Here, you're just making stuff up or rather repeating stuff other people have claimed. Why would a 9 foot tall, 500 Lb animal mimic a bird to avoid detection? Such a creature would rule it's environment and obviously make quick work of anything it considered a threat. Imagine a grizzly or brown bear imitating a bird in order to scare off a preditor (man) half it's size.

Not trying to be a buzzkill, and this stuff is interesting.

But saying they can outrun a horse, or that they are "reported" to imitate owls and birds...who makes such claims and what do they have to back that up?

It's an incredible amount of knowledge and understanding of a creature you have to admit has never been actually studied first hand and up close.

I am not just pulling these claims out of thin air. I have read about 30 different books on the subject, many of which I own. The owl imitation and footspeed have all been reported in various sitings by various eye witnesses. If you are interested I can give you a list of books to read but if you search Bigfoot or Sasquatch on Amazon. Com. or any book sales site you will find a lot of them. One of the best to read is John Green's: Sasquatch, the Apes Among Us. Also, In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman, by Dmitri Bayanov, which tells of detailed sitings of the Russian Bigfoot or Almasty. These are IMHO fascinating eyewitness details of sitings.

There is also another book called Raincoast Sasquatch by Robert Alley which tells of sitings in Alaska. There is another book called Tribal Bigfoot and yet another called The Hoopa Project where eyewitnesses (many of them Native Americans) were interviewed and gave descriptions of the Bigfoot's facial features to a police sketch artist. These books are by David Paulides. And of course there is: Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science by Dr. Jeff Meldrum.

Here is a link from In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman - the Story of Zana, which IMHO is fascinating.

http://bigfootencounters.com/articles/zana.htm

The man who investigated and reported this story, Igor Burtsov, was interviewed on a MonsterQuest episode about this.

I also know the full story of the PG film. I have a copy of Roger Patterson's original book "Do Abominable Snowmen of America Really Exist?

[kudzu]

Take a look at the handle for the forum's Bigfoot expert and connect the dots. He's obviously a Ravens scout or an agent looking for new clients. Some day Ray Lewis will retire and then this guy will sign the first Bigfoot to play in the NFL.

He's old19fan from this very forum (mostly the Orioles part of it) from a decade ago.

[OldBay]

He's old19fan from this very forum (mostly the Orioles part of it) from a decade ago.

I admit to finding the posts entertaining.

[kudzu]

I admit to finding the posts entertaining.

VERY entertaining.

Did you now that he actually went down to the Sun offices to fight his banning from this/these boards ?

He's a character, no doubt.

[OldBay]

VERY entertaining.

Did you now that he actually went down to the Sun offices to fight his banning from this/these boards ?

He's a character, no doubt.

Good show! Such grievous injuries demand appeal to the highest authorities!

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

Can we please just keep to the thread topic in these posts and not make them about me? I am not that interesting or entertaining I can assure you. Just ask my wife. Nobody truly cares about that whatsoever. Please just keep on the topic at hand. Thanks.

[OldBay]

Can we please just keep to the thread topic in these posts and not make them about me? I am not that interesting or entertaining I can assure you. Just ask my wife. Nobody truly cares about that whatsoever. Please just keep on the topic at hand. Thanks.

ok.

How do you address the reality that hybrids, by definition, are sterile? The only way to have a population of hybrids is to have multiple cross-species matings (or to create them in the lab). Are there some men in the remote PNW so lonely that they are hooking up with Bigfoot females? And repeatedly?

[Eastside Terp]

I thought originalcoltsfan was old19fan? ........

he's the new qb expert down on the raven's forum taking old 19's place .......

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

ok.

How do you address the reality that hybrids, by definition, are sterile? The only way to have a population of hybrids is to have multiple cross-species matings (or to create them in the lab). Are there some men in the remote PNW so lonely that they are hooking up with Bigfoot females? And repeatedly?

I think (not sure about it) that some hybrids can reproduce although it is rare. For example aren't all dogs that interbreed hybrids, and they all reproduce. You cannot be more diffierent than say a St. Bernard and a Chiuwaha, yet they can breed and reproduce as they are both dogs (same species).

[OldBay]

I think (not sure about it) that some hybrids can reproduce although it is rare. For example aren't all dogs that interbreed hybrids, and they all reproduce. You cannot be more diffierent than say a St. Bernard and a Chiuwaha, yet they can breed and reproduce as they are both dogs (same species).

Dogs of different breeds are all the same species, Canis lupus familiaris. Crossing two different breeds produces fertile offspring of the same species, and they are not considered hybrids (just "mutts"). Believe it or not, such very different dog breeds have diverged only in the last few hundred years - thanks to humans forcing a form of natural selection through selective breeding.

When I was in college, we learned that all dogs belonged to a single species descended from a common gray wolf like ancestor. Thinking has changed, thanks to DNA analysis in the 1990's. Today, all dogs are considered to be a subspecies of the gray wolf. While some of the largest, more wolf-like dogs in morphology can physically mate with wolves - and do, the offspring are not true hybrids, since they are still members of the same species. This is how the rarest endangered animals like Galapagos tortoises may be restored - by forcing them to breed with other, closely related subspecies. (Unfortunately, tortoises are very selective in mate choice and usually refuse to have anything to do with another subspecies - hence the nickname "lonesome George", RIP)

One can create almost anything in the lab between closely related species and subspecies. But they are usually infertile - which makes it difficult to sustain a population (and serves to maintain separate species at contact zones).

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

Dogs of different breeds are all the same species, Canis lupus familiaris. Crossing two different breeds produces fertile offspring of the same species, and they are not considered hybrids (just "mutts"). Believe it or not, such very different dog breeds have diverged only in the last few hundred years - thanks to humans forcing a form of natural selection through selective breeding.

When I was in college, we learned that all dogs belonged to a single species descended from a common gray wolf like ancestor. Thinking has changed, thanks to DNA analysis in the 1990's. Today, all dogs are considered to be a subspecies of the gray wolf. While some of the largest, more wolf-like dogs in morphology can physically mate with wolves - and do, the offspring are not true hybrids, since they are still members of the same species. This is how the rarest endangered animals like Galapagos tortoises may be restored - by forcing them to breed with other, closely related subspecies. (Unfortunately, tortoises are very selective in mate choice and usually refuse to have anything to do with another subspecies - hence the nickname "lonesome George", RIP)

One can create almost anything in the lab between closely related species and subspecies. But they are usually infertile - which makes it difficult to sustain a population (and serves to maintain separate species at contact zones).

Well since obviously, I don't have any knowledge of genetics, I defer to your knowledge on the subject. However, I think a wolf and a dog can interbreed and produce a hybrid wolf/dog that can reproduce, but correct me on this if I am wrong. If so, wouldn't that be the same as a bigfoot and a human or very similar?

[OldBay]

Well since obviously, I don't have any knowledge of genetics, I defer to your knowledge on the subject. However, I think a wolf and a dog can interbreed and produce a hybrid wolf/dog that can reproduce, but correct me on this if I am wrong. If so, wouldn't that be the same as a bigfoot and a human or very similar?

The wolf-dog cross is possible. And it is also possible that some of the offspring are fertile. I don't consider them to be hybrids, but back-crosses.

Besides the genetics (chromosome pairs a serious issue) problems of large hominids, possibly the greatest block to reproduction could be behavioral. Even 15,000 years ago, Homo sapiens was so advanced that I cannot imagine such a pairing. I know lots of species that could theoretically hybridize, but don't because they have behavioral isolating mechanisms.

I'm a skeptic. It doesn't mean its completely impossible. And I think Bigfoot research can be an interesting, harmless hobby.

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

The wolf-dog cross is possible. And it is also possible that some of the offspring are fertile. I don't consider them to be hybrids, but back-crosses.

Besides the genetics (chromosome pairs a serious issue) problems of large hominids, possibly the greatest block to reproduction could be behavioral. Even 15,000 years ago, Homo sapiens was so advanced that I cannot imagine such a pairing. I know lots of species that could theoretically hybridize, but don't because they have behavioral isolating mechanisms.

I'm a skeptic. It doesn't mean its completely impossible. And I think Bigfoot research can be an interesting, harmless hobby.

The purported "pairings" were for the most part simply a result of a male bigfoot or Yeti kidnapping an American Indian maiden or female Sherpa. In other words it was pretty much rape by these creatures. Indian tales of this are fairly numerous and there are fewer but still some similar Yeti tales. There are a few isolated stories of attempts by female Almasty (Russian Bigfoot) in seducing men. I think there is one in the book: In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman. There is also a tale in David Paulides books (Tribal Bigfoot or The Hoopa Project) about a logger being kidnapped and thrown in a ditch and raped by a female bigfoot. He eventually escaped but died as a result of his treatment. (Note) I am not espousing any of this a substantiated or true but tales of this nature do exist.

There is also the interesting story of Albert Ostman, a Canadian prospector who was allegedly carried away and held captive for several days by a family of sasquatch, apparently with the idea of his being a suitable mate for the daughter in the family, but he escaped before this could be confirmed. Here is the link:

http://bigfootencounters.com/classics/ostman.htm

[OldBay]

The purported "pairings" were for the most part simply a result of a male bigfoot or Yeti kidnapping an American Indian maiden or female Sherpa. In other words it was pretty much rape by these creatures. Indian tales of this are fairly numerous and there are fewer but still some similar Yeti tales. There are a few isolated stories of attempts by female Almasty (Russian Bigfoot) in seducing men. I think there is one in the book: In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman. There is also a tale in David Paulides books (Tribal Bigfoot or The Hoopa Project) about a logger being kidnapped and thrown in a ditch and raped by a female bigfoot. He eventually escaped but died as a result of his treatment. (Note) I am not espousing any of this a substantiated or true but tales of this nature do exist.

The stories are fascinating but the biology is questionable. Even if a human egg could be fertilized with Bigfoot sperm, or the reciprocal cross, I would not expect normal development to occur. Maybe a few cell divisions just from activation of the egg, and then failure.

If a mystery hominid is ever found fresh, say from a vehicle collision, these things could be tested. Eggs could certainly be frozen in nitrogen to await an experiment. I'm not an ethicist, but I doubt that experimental crosses would be approved.

[OldBay]

That Ostman story was pretty good - thanks for providing the link. Keep in mind that scientists are by nature, skeptics, conservative, and reluctant to believe stories at face value. I'll be a believer when a body is found. If you're still around when that happens, feel free to tell us all "I told you so".