Harbaugh kept Ravens on track despite mutiny

[West Chester Raven]

The truth? You know nothing about the truth when it comes to football.

Bad coaches don't make the playoffs five years in a row. They just don't. The talent level amongst the teams is too close for that. Do you really think *****ty coaches have that level of sustained success? Even terrible teams have a legitimate chance to beat good teams on any given day, and it happens every year with relative regularity.

Bytch and moan all you want about the offense - despite the fact that it has been inconsistent, it has more often than not gotten the job done, and the team is 9-2.

Spin all you want, everything I just said is the truth.

Hurts, doesn't it?

OCF is the smartest guy on the board. Don't forget that. Everybody knew a kid like that back in elementary school. They usually didn't fare too well.

[West Chester Raven]

Here's a great example of John Harbaugh's leadership:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/...0-f52c4ed95b84

Quote from John Harbaugh:

“We were forced to open it up a little bit,” Head Coach John Harbaugh said Monday. “Obviously, we spread it out, because we were down 10 in the fourth quarter, and we had no choice and we probably changed gears. We got into a little more of a no-huddle, up-tempo type of a deal.”

This is reactionary thinking, vs proactive thinking. They allowed themselves to be backed into a corner that took a miracle run to get out of late in the 4th quarter. Why did it take this brilliant head coach 3 full quarters of football to realize what to do about it? Especially when it's been the SAME PROBLEM now for years.

The coaching staff doesn't trust the passing offense. It is obvious. It got us out of a jam - good thing. But they understand that they can't rely on it as their bread and butter. You need to understand that too and stop throwng the coaching staff under the bus all the time.

[West Chester Raven]

Good coaches don't put loyalty to a coordinator ahead of the best interest of the team. Harbaugh has done that on several occasions. He is not a good coach, IMO, regardless of his W/L record.

Flacco is not a good QB regardless of his W/L record. You are such a double standard tool.

[ivanbalt]

Well...it'll be interesting to see what spot Harbaugh finds for his old buddy Andy Reid after he gets canned in Philly.

Was Reid an OC before becoming a head coach? Seems like he's been head coach for most of my life.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Was Reid an OC before becoming a head coach? Seems like he's been head coach for most of my life.

Who said anything about Harbaugh making him an OC?

[ivanbalt]

Who said anything about Harbaugh making him an OC?

Just wondering what he did pre-head coach.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Just wondering what he did pre-head coach.

He was an offensive line coach with 4 different college teams through the 1980's, was an offensive assistant/line coach with the Packers through most of the 1990's then became QB coach in 1997. He became the Eagles HC in 1999.

[Ravens2006]

The coaching staff doesn't trust the passing offense. It is obvious...

Okay. So they're 7th in the AFC in attempts, next to last in INTs (only Brady's Pats have thrown fewer), 5th in yards per attempt, and 6th in yards per game. Those are top half / top 3rd rankings for the most part. There are 16 teams in the conference. Not sure where they rank now in plays "over 20 yards", but they were at the top earlier in the season, and I can't imagine they've slipped far. So the raw numbers certainly don't support the idea that the staff "doesn't trust" their passing offense. Only 4 teams in the entire league have averaged less ToP as well, thanks in large part due to the Ravens run defense not being able to get off the field many games in the first half of the season.

And serious question... feel free to answer... is there more to a passing attack than just the QB? Does it matter how the OL blocks, how well the WRs read the coverage and run / adjust their routes, whether they catch the ball or not when it gets there?

Do you think the Ravens have a "good" offensive line? Would you say their receiving corps is "good" overall? Does Cameron do a "good" job scheming the offense? Or should Joe just be able to make everyone better?

[OriginalColtsFan]

Okay. So they're 7th in the AFC in attempts, next to last in INTs (only Brady's Pats have thrown fewer), 5th in yards per attempt, and 6th in yards per game. Those are top half / top 3rd rankings for the most part. There are 16 teams in the conference. Not sure where they rank now in plays "over 20 yards", but they were at the top earlier in the season, and I can't imagine they've slipped far. So the raw numbers certainly don't support the idea that the staff "doesn't trust" their passing offense. Only 4 teams in the entire league have averaged less ToP as well, thanks in large part due to the Ravens run defense not being able to get off the field many games in the first half of the season.

And serious question... feel free to answer... is there more to a passing attack than just the QB? Does it matter how the OL blocks, how well the WRs read the coverage and run / adjust their routes, whether they catch the ball or not when it gets there?

Do you think the Ravens have a "good" offensive line? Would you say their receiving corps is "good" overall? Does Cameron do a "good" job scheming the offense? Or should Joe just be able to make everyone better?

Winner!

[West Chester Raven]

Okay. So they're 7th in the AFC in attempts, next to last in INTs (only Brady's Pats have thrown fewer), 5th in yards per attempt, and 6th in yards per game. Those are top half / top 3rd rankings for the most part. There are 16 teams in the conference. Not sure where they rank now in plays "over 20 yards", but they were at the top earlier in the season, and I can't imagine they've slipped far. So the raw numbers certainly don't support the idea that the staff "doesn't trust" their passing offense. Only 4 teams in the entire league have averaged less ToP as well, thanks in large part due to the Ravens run defense not being able to get off the field many games in the first half of the season.

And serious question... feel free to answer... is there more to a passing attack than just the QB? Does it matter how the OL blocks, how well the WRs read the coverage and run / adjust their routes, whether they catch the ball or not when it gets there?

Do you think the Ravens have a "good" offensive line? Would you say their receiving corps is "good" overall? Does Cameron do a "good" job scheming the offense? Or should Joe just be able to make everyone better?

Thanks for the reply. Here are my thoughts:
1. Our passing offense is ranked 11th overall. However our efficiency in completion % is ranked #22 out of 32 teams. That doesn't brood confidence with the coaching staff. That means that while we started chucking it a lot - we didn't complete it as much as one would hope. In fact, we are in the bottom thrid of the league there. Stats can be so misleading unless you dig into them a bit.
2. Our 3rd down efficiency is ranked #20 out of 32 teams. (source ESPN) Here again - quantity doesn't equal quality. Quality builds confidence with coaches. Not quantity.
3. Our offensive line while not great this year without Ben Grubbs is ranked #17 in pass blocking and #9 in run blocking. Great? No - but certainly not the worst. Certainly not bad enough to be used as a scape goat. Pitt and Indy are #15 and #16. Grenn Bay is #29 and NE is #1 for some perspective. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
4. We have 2 very good WR's and a decent 3rd with Jacoby Jones. We have a top tier elite RB. Pitta is a nice TE. Joe has weapons to use. As many as one can expect in the salary cap era.
5. Ray Rice is second on the team in receptions with only 2 fewer catches than our leading WR in catches Anquan Boldin. Ray Rice has been targeted in the passing game just 6 fewer times than Torrey Smith. That tells me we are checking down A LOT. Having that many check downs doesn't build coaching confidence. It does mean that your aren't taking risks and it is an indication that you are missing opportunities to hit WR's.

[Peej7245]

...(Oh...and the POINT of the thread WAS, in fact, to use this one example, nothing else. So yes...it IS legit to focus on this one example in response, and nothing else.)

Was there a point to that article, other than Harbaugh listening to a team full of veteran professionals...Maybe there is a reason this team is heading to its fifth straight playoff run?

Sounds like some of us are in violent agreement here. LOL

[OriginalColtsFan]

Was there a point to that article, other than Harbaugh listening to a team full of veteran professionals...Maybe there is a reason this team is heading to its fifth straight playoff run?

The second poster stated that it showed how great a coach Harbaugh is.

[Peej7245]

The second poster stated that it showed how great a coach Harbaugh is.

Great or not great???? Leave that assessment to the national pundits - who specialize in navel-gazing anyway.

The article mentioned how many players were surprised at how flexible Harbaugh appeared when he did not merely dismiss criticism...this illustrates his style that's all.

What I see is mundane stuff such as a 9-2 record, undefeated at home (since 2010), possibly the fifth straight playoff appearance, etc.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Great or not great???? Leave that assessment to the national pundits - who specialize in navel-gazing anyway.

The article mentioned how many players were surprised at how flexible Harbaugh appeared when he did not merely dismiss criticism...this illustrates his style that's all.

What I see is mundane stuff such as a 9-2 record, undefeated at home (since 2010), possibly the fifth straight playoff appearance, etc.

When it comes to the Ravens, it basically all boils down to one thing for me: Good/very good, vs great. The Ravens have demonstrated for years that they are -- or at least can be -- a good/very good team. What they've lacked over that time is a coaching staff and FO that can kick everything up to the next level -- greatness, dynasty, etc. So for fans who are satisfied with playoff appearances instead of World Championships, the Ravens are the perfect team. For those interested in seeing more out of the potential the Ravens have possessed now for over a decade, the Ravens are a perfect example of wasted opportunities, making the SAME types of mistakes year in and year out that prevent them from achieving true greatness. And honestly...no amount of message board fodder is ever going to close that gap -- it's based upon a fundamental difference in perspective that is not going to change, compromise, or BE compromised.