Stepping into the abyss and the dailyKos alternative betaverse.

[SemiAuto]

The kosbots are at it again...

President Obama and Democrats are saying that the most urgent fiscal issue facing the country is the expiration of tax cuts on income under $250,000. They say we should extend those tax cuts now, but let Bush tax cuts on income over $250,000 expire at the end the year. They also say that we should continue to look for ways to reduce the deficit through long-term spending reductions, but that we can't ignore the need for short-term measures to boost the economy—things like unemployment benefits and something to replace the payroll tax cut.

Boehner steps into the abyss.

But the Bush tax cuts are not the abyss. Spending is.

Using data from the president’s FY2013 budget, this chart places the revenue effects of this expiration into proper perspective. According to Office of Management and Budget data, letting the income tax measures expire for top earners will raise revenue by a projected $850 billion over the next 10 years. With the restoration of the estate, gift, and generational-skipping transfer tax parameters (also part of the Bush-tax cuts that affect high earners), revenue is projected to increase about $967 billion over the next 10 years.

This sounds like a lot of money, but let’s put this number into perspective by looking at how much the federal government will be spending over the course of the next 10 years. Drawing on the president’s own data, the chart above shows that the government will spend more than $46.9 trillion. Even without interest payments, spending will still amount to $41.2 trillion. Moreover, the total interest paid on the debt will reach $5.7 trillion.

Now compare the size of the tax revenue increase to the total amount of spending, and you will see where the problem lies. Even if the president manages to collect an additional $967 billion by letting some of the Bush-Era tax cuts expire, Washington still has a spending problem.

source

The two bars on the left side of the chart are not the abyss. The one on the right is.

[CajunRaven]

Any person with an elementary education in math can see the problem. The sad part is just about everyone knows the truth, yet we have a stalemate.

You have to love the part about continuing to look for long term ways to cut spending. Where have we heard that before?

[soulflower]

They've already voted for 1.2 trillion in spending cuts.

Imo, the cuts are worse than the tax increases.

[Mom49of4]

Cuts are next year. Tax increases are a mistake at this time.

[SemiAuto]

They've already voted for 1.2 trillion in spending cuts.

Imo, the cuts are worse than the tax increases.

Even if Obama got all his tax increases and the GOP gets just as much in cuts it won't be enough. The result is still a spending abyss.

It.
Is.
Not.
Even.
Close.

[soulflower]

Cuts are next year. Tax increases are a mistake at this time.

Depends on what taxes increase and the amount of the increase.

[Mom49of4]

Even if Obama got all his tax increases and the GOP gets just as much in cuts it won't be enough. The result is still a spending abyss.

It.
Is.
Not.
Even.
Close.

I heard a figure the other day that suggested his proposed tax increases would only keep government running about 8 days.

[soulflower]

Even if Obama got all his tax increases and the GOP gets just as much in cuts it won't be enough. The result is still a spending abyss.

It.
Is.
Not.
Even.
Close.

I agree but the republicans aren't going to get a better deal next year if we go over the cliff.

There will be more Dems in Congress next year...

[SemiAuto]

I agree but the republicans aren't going to get a better deal next year if we go over the cliff.

There will be more Dems in Congress next year...

Yet is one were silly enough to take the dailyKos alternative betaverse seriously, the GOP are the hostage takers here. That is rubbish. The big spenders are the hostage takers and that includes a sizable amount of the GOP.

The fiscal abyss is, far and away, on the spending side.

[Mom49of4]

Semi, spending has always been the problem. Unfortunately, a majority of voters think government knows how to run a business.

[soulflower]

Yet is one were silly enough to take the dailyKos alternative betaverse seriously, the GOP are the hostage takers here. That is rubbish. The big spenders are the hostage takers and that includes a sizable amount of the GOP.

The fiscal abyss is, far and away, on the spending side.

Both parties are addicted to spending. They only have different spending priorities

OTOH, "Starving the beast" has never worked. It's easy to cut taxes but difficult to cut spending...

[cprenegade]

Both parties are addicted to spending. They only have different spending priorities

OTOH, "Starving the beast" has never worked. It's easy to cut taxes but difficult to cut spending...

It's always going to be that way because every program you cut, affects someone, and that person represents votes to on or the other party. Somebody has to make the tough decision and realize that the easiest way to run a budget is to not spend more than you take in. If they need to raise taxes on the wealthiest, I would begrudgingly go along with that, but in return I want cuts to the bone.

[EmDot]

When you have to borrow to pay for tax cuts, that's spending.

[AttackPlanR]

Cuts are next year. Tax increases are a mistake at this time.

Why?.

[AttackPlanR]

Well, again semi. What do you propose?. I mean you constantly complain and point to the problem, and it is one. I've never heard from you, however, what would you have them do?

[soulflower]

If they need to raise taxes on the wealthiest, I would begrudgingly go along with that, but in return I want cuts to the bone.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't cut spending however, spending cuts, if not done wisely, could hurt the economy significantly more than tax increases on the wealthy.

[ivanbalt]

Don't raise taxes and don't cut spending. Yay, it's fun being a dumb American.

[SemiAuto]

Well, again semi. What do you propose?. I mean you constantly complain and point to the problem, and it is one. I've never heard from you, however, what would you have them do?

Cut spending, just like I've repeatedly said.

[SemiAuto]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't cut spending however, spending cuts, if not done wisely, could hurt the economy significantly more than tax increases on the wealthy.

Tax increases on the wealthy won't even come close to solving the problem.

The hostage takers are the big spenders.

[Mom49of4]

Cut spending, just like I've repeatedly said.

I have said the same.