Ray Rice 12 carries with a LEAD?

[CajunRaven]

Exactly let's say you use Rice more in that game(which I don't disagree with) what difference does it make if when Pitt gets the ball, Batch is completing 15-20 yard passes to wide open receivers? Assuming They start keying on Rice(which is an adjustment I believe their DC would make if we ran Ray more regularly), we're still not stopping them on D.

And to stay on the defensive topic for a minute , everyone knows they have this dude named Heath. He's been around for a while now and most folks know what he can do. How is it we seemed to forget about him?

[jamesdean]

I definitely disagree about Pierce's ability to take it to the house. He's just getting warmed up/fired up to the NFL. To my eye, Ray has lost a 1/2 step, and despite his TD on the draw, his other runs just were not that impressive, IMO. As far as you trying to make a causal relationship between Ray's "25 touches" stats and W/L's...that's always a slippery slope, and by no means a slam dunk, no matter how tempting it is to look at it that way.

I doubt Rice has lost a step at this point in his career. Also, I do agree with you that statistics are often misleading(including Joe Flacco's record as a quarterback) because football is a team sport. No one person is going to win every game by himself. However, statistics do impart a certain trend over a certain amount of time and this team has a 32-10 record when Ray is more involved. Does it mean the Ravens will win EVERY game? No, but I'll take those percentages any day. Additonally, let's not forget that Joe Flacco becomes a much more dangerous passer off play action. Until this team gets some offensive lineman who can pass block, I'd stick to the running game. It's not sexy but I still think it's their strength.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I doubt Rice has lost a step at this point in his career. Also, I do agree with you that statistics are often misleading(including Joe Flacco's record as a quarterback) because football is a team sport. No one person is going to win every game by himself. However, statistics do impart a certain trend over a certain amount of time and this team has a 32-10 record when Ray is more involved. Does it mean the Ravens will win EVERY game? No, but I'll take those percentages any day. Additonally, let's not forget that Joe Flacco becomes a much more dangerous passer off play action. Until this team gets some offensive lineman who can pass block, I'd stick to the running game. It's not sexy but I still think it's their strength.

I was watching Sproles run for the Saints. There's a burst of explosiveness that USED to be there with Ray, and just does not appear to be there. I also see a burst of explosiveness with Pierce, and that's why I think he needs to be getting some touches. Time catches up with everyone, especially small NFL running backs. And Ray has been used a LOT already in his career. There's no shame to admit he's worn down a bit; it happens.

Additionally, the Ravens need to learn how to properly SCHEME to OPEN UP the p/a. Sometimes, you seem them bootleg or roll the pocket or just roll Joe out, and sometimes it works. But they need to work the middle of the field with SHORT/MEDIUM range passes, and once in a while stretch it out. But Cameron either doesn't know HOW to do that consistently, or prefers NOT to, for whatever reason. You just don't win in the NFL with the running game based on Ray Rice, especially with the Ravens average to below average defense. Not in the playoffs.

[TDL]

I doubt Rice has lost a step at this point in his career.

The Ravens lack the interior blocking along the OL that they once had.Birk gets pushed into the backfield regularly and they took a hit by losing a pro bowl OG in Grubbs.They also insist on playing Oher out of position and these factors have resulted in Rice getting bottled up more often than he has in the past.

They also haven't had a solid LT since Ogden retired other than the times when Gaither was healthy and wanted to play.

[bmore_ken]

I'd stick to the running game. It's not sexy but I still think it's their strength.

Definitely their strength, but you're not going to beatthe Steelers D with the running game

[JasonM]

Zero touches in the 4th quarter for Rice. I don't expect 30 carries against Pittsburgh, but give the guy a touch or 2 in the 4th.

[durango46]

I like the way Pierce runs with the ball-down hill and with some power. But the bottom line is that when Ray Rice touches the ball, he's a threat to go to the house. Pierce does not have that kind of ability and certainly not Leach. And there's no denying the Ravens won-lost record when Rice gets his 25-30 touches. I don't think it takes a Rhodes Scholar to see the connection but for some reason, the Ravens offensive coaching staff(mainly your buddy Cam Cameron) keeps coming back to the same dead end. I promise you, the Redskins will get a heavy dose of Rice. It's so predictable that it borders on absurdity.

^this^

throw him the ball out of the backfield also

RR in space is a very dangerous RB

see the TD run

[Tootsie]

And once again Flacco showed why he will NEVER be "Elite" - he will always be just an "Average Joe".

Yet last week YOU called him elite.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=324568

[OriginalColtsFan]

Yet last week YOU called him elite.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=324568

Ouch!



(I guess "elite" is a fleeting sort of thang.)

[durango46]

I'm going to say it again.....if Harbaugh wants to keep Cam he can go to !

12 carries by Ray Rice is well pure stupidity

[RavingManiac]

It's always the same old song and dance with this team. When they lose, Rice invariably gets under 20 carries. When they win, he's in the 25-30 range. For whatever reason, the master minds on offense never see the connection. It's almost comical. And once again, they'll look at the film and say, "man, we've got to get the ball in Ray Rice's hands more." And as if on cue, he'll rush 25-30 times in Washington this week and the Ravens will come out with a win. Too funny.

Well Rice has had only one game this whole season with carries in the 25-30 range and yes, that was a win. We are still 8-3 when he gets carries less than the 25-30 range.

[mythoughts]

Yet last week YOU called him elite.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?t=324568

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.
That's not what I said.
Wanna try again, without taking things out of context.

[Tootsie]

This again is why Cameron needs to go.
The Ravens lead the game for 75% of the time yet Flacco still threw the ball nearly 3-1 as much as Rice carried the ball.
And once again Flacco showed why he will NEVER be "Elite" - he will always be just an "Average Joe". He doesn't have, never had, and never will have the intangibles that make a player (at any position) GREAT. He has the talent to put together a spurt or two here and there but he will never be consistant. He has NEVER won more than 4 consecutive games.

But all this would be fine if Cam would develop and call a game plan based on that. But he decides to use a "Peyton Manning-type" game plan with an "Alex Smith-type" QB, when he should be using more of a "Adrian Peterson-type" game plan.

Flacco is no where near a Top 5 QB, the real questions is whether he's a Top-half QB - 15th, 16th or 17th best QB in the league.

I don't think the Ravens can necessarily get a better QB - maybe they can, maybe they can't, but there's no excuse for bad game plan design.

We are seeing this year just how well the Defense has carried the Ravens and Joe in the past. Now that the D is way down we're seeing proof that Joe isn't carry this team. Yeah, the team is 9-3, but would anyone be surprised if they were 3-9? They've found ways to win several games that they shouldn't have but realistically, how many teams have the Ravens outplayed this year.? 2.....maybe 3 ?

If the Ravens give Joe a big contract the Orioles will win a World Series before the Ravens win a Super Bowl.

You said he will NEVER be Elite. Then say he can be Elite at times. Which is it?

[mythoughts]

You said he will NEVER be Elite. Then say he can be Elite at times. Which is it?

I also said:
"He doesn't have, never had, and never will have the intangibles that make a player (at any position) GREAT. He has the talent to put together a spurt or two here and there but he will never be consistant."

What is the title of the Thread you posted ? [answer: That was an incredible 25 minutes of football by Flacco !! ]
And I commented:
He made everything throw he had to make from about 10 minutes to go in the 4th until the end.

That was "Elite" there !!!"

I went back and looked at the Play-by-play.
By my calculation from the 7:51 mark in the 4th Qtr until the end of OT (that's 22:51) Flacco was 18/27 for 223. Are you trying to argue that those stats over about 25 minutes aren't "elite"? That should be elite by anyone's standards. But being elite for 25 minutes or part of a game does not make one an "Elite" QB. It makes them inconsistant. I'm willing to point out the flaws in Joe but I am also willing to give him credit where credit is due. What is wrong with that ?

[Tootsie]

Nothing wrong with that at all. However, you cant say hes "elite" at times. Then turn around and say he will "never" be elite. He's been at least elite for 10 minutes. He does have flashes of being an elite QB. But he also has flashes of being awful. He is definitely inconsistent

[OriginalColtsFan]

Nothing wrong with that at all. However, you cant say hes "elite" at times. Then turn around and say he will "never" be elite. He's been at least elite for 10 minutes. He does have flashes of being an elite QB. But he also has flashes of being awful. He is definitely inconsistent

Couldn't the same thing be said about Brett Favre? Didn't he throw WAY too many ints for an "elite" QB? Yet wasn't he clearly an "elite" QB? I think the problem with this discussion centers around the concept of "elite" -- it's just too vague to really mean anything.