How MSNBC is destroying the 'progressive' movement.

[SemiAuto]

Well don't just sit there. Do something about it.

Like vote? Look how that turned out? SSDD. I'm not the one being duped. Then again, I'm not so sure the progs are being duped. They're just being power whores. You know, that whole authoritarian/reactionary thing that speeds by you.

[SemiAuto]

Trust me, if Obama blows the Fiscal Cliff negotiations, he will have a short-lived post-election honeymoon. He has leverage and no real excuse for not getting a deal that is favorable to progressives...

Like raising taxes on the middle class? Selling them out to big insurance like poorly treated cattle?

Then again, as the article points out:

Once you vow unconditional, permanent loyalty to a politician and a party - once you demonstrate that you will support them no matter what they do - why would you possibly expect that they will do anything but ignore you? A rational politician, by definition, pays attention to those whose support is conditional and uncertain, not to those who loudly proclaim that it is a solemn duty to support that politician and his party under all circumstances. That's just the basic rules governing how power works, of negotiations and politics: those who eagerly renounce all their leverage make themselves inconsequential and impotent.

There is no reason for Obama to listen.

President Barack Obama’s aides said they would recommend he veto a $631.4 billion defense authorization measure now before the Senate unless it’s changed.

Among provisions cited as unacceptable in a statement today from the White House is the bill’s limit on using funds to transfer detainees from the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to other countries.

source

This from the guy who ran on a promise to close the place. All the teeth gnashing of his apologists won't matter a bit.

[reg_indy]

That is an opinion.


I bet the FACT that Maddow and Sharpton met with obama to advise him on tax policy this week will not be criticized on MSNBC.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics

And Roger Ailes has Rove in his Fox News Payroll.......


What's the diff?

[gonzoliberal]

"Progressives" aren't the only ones bowing to "big gommint".

The so-called conservative Republicans demand the gommint do all sorts of expensive and intrusive things.

Face it.

"Gommint" is where we turn for redress against those bigger, be they neighbors, corporations or nations. Most Americans, left or right or otherwise, have an innate sense of self-respect and entitlement.

Pretending the tendency exists only on one side is sophomoric at best.

[SemiAuto]

"Progressives" aren't the only ones bowing to "big gommint".

The so-called conservative Republicans demand the gommint do all sorts of expensive and intrusive things.

Face it.

"Gommint" is where we turn for redress against those bigger, be they neighbors, corporations or nations. Most Americans, left or right or otherwise, have an innate sense of self-respect and entitlement.

Pretending the tendency exists only on one side is sophomoric at best.

So why do progressives turn to government so much? Big government sells them out to those with the best K Street boys.

The GOP likes to pretend to be about limited government. Much like they pretend to be about fiscal responsibility. Their track record puts the lie to that.

One thing I don't agree with is this:

Why would anyone believe that posture will affect anything? Once the choice is made to lock oneself into a state of permanent, unbreakable partisan loyalty, based on the lesser-evil justification, then one renders oneself completely powerless.

I'm not arguing here against that choice. Whatever one thinks of the lesser-of-two-evils rationale, it's at least cogent and rational. The debate over that choice has already been hashed out and there's no point in repeating it here. But whatever one thinks of it, there are costs and benefits to that choice, and one should be honest about both.

It is not rational to chose between the lesser of two evils. You still end up with evil. That is a false choice that is far too common in picking between the GOP and DNC. I won't hold my nose and do it anymore. Those that do make such a false choice deserve nothing but scorn.

[gonzoliberal]

Why do people turn to gommint?

Unknowable. What's important is the REALITY that they do. In great numbers... with no discrimination.... rich, poor, gay, straight, left, right, ignorant, genius.

Therefore, we must demand gommint work, and work well.

This goal is often stymied by misguided rightists, giving homage to the ol' "drown it in a bathtube" meme.

Why we listen to such immature eliminationist crap is beyond me.

We ALL should demand, vote and fund for efficient and meaningful gommint and not be timid about eliminating programs that have outlived their usefulness.

[Rael]

Romney wouldn't have been more progressive than Obama so they chose to endorse Obama in spite of his flaws.

However, the left has been far tougher on Obama than the right-wing media was towards Bush during the Bush years. That's a fact.

No, that is pretty much the quintessential example of an opinion. What metrics are you using to support your declaration of fact?

[SemiAuto]

Why do people turn to gommint?

Unknowable. What's important is the REALITY that they do. In great numbers... with no discrimination.... rich, poor, gay, straight, left, right, ignorant, genius.

Therefore, we must demand gommint work, and work well.

This goal is often stymied by misguided rightists, giving homage to the ol' "drown it in a bathtube" meme.

Why we listen to such immature eliminationist crap is beyond me.

We ALL should demand, vote and fund for efficient and meaningful gommint and not be timid about eliminating programs that have outlived their usefulness.

Yet somehow Obama gets re-elected. Musta been misguided rightists, eh?

No. The 'left' is just as easily duped or they're just being faction oriented power whores. The latter making them no better than the GOP. The result being that the choice between them is a false one.

[Grindelwald]

What party would that be?

I don't know. Sleep on it, figure it out.