not the kind of article you want in SI ......

[Eastside Terp]

Costly losses give Ravens, Bears something to worry about in race

Week 13 in the NFL had its requisite amount of 16 losers -- and, yes, we know the Rams and 49ers nearly tied once again -- but nobody in the league lost more ground than the Bears and Ravens, both of whom were upset at home on Sunday by six-win teams, dropping out of the No. 2 playoff seeds in their respective conferences.

At 9-3, it's no time to panic in Ravens-land. But Baltimore's remaining schedule is fairly brutal, with four consecutive games against teams that either hold a playoff seed or are in seriously in the hunt: at Washington (6-6), Denver (9-3), the Giants (7-5), and at Cincinnati (7-5). The alarmist among Ravens fans (which is most of them) sees that once-lofty 9-2 record turning into a disappointing 10-6 or even 9-7 finish fairly quickly if Baltimore isn't careful. Even some of the Ravens veterans seem to understand the tenuous nature of their position, and that nothing has been assured with four weeks remaining. Not even a playoff berth of any kind.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz2E8LzDmHy


can't argue with that, he must read this board ......

[OriginalColtsFan]

Spot on, no "purple Kool-aid/glasses" perspective.

[TDL]

They must have put a ton of thought behind that article.

Masters of the obvious!

[OriginalColtsFan]

They must have put a ton of thought behind that article.

Masters of the obvious!

More than the local press -- the masters of the knob-slobbing.

[cprenegade]

I think the guy is correct. There are a number of things the Raven's should rightfully be concerned about. And when you consider that if it were not for a special teams breakdown by Pittsburgh, a miracle 4th and 29 run by Ray Rice, a totally mismanaged clock by Dallas, and an unbelievably self destructive offensive performance by KC, the Raven's might be a .500 or worse team right now. They have played much of this season with a shoe-string margin of error. In going 9-2 it seems like all of the breaks have come at the right time for them. Over the course of the season breaks tend to even out. It will be interesting to see how the team performs in these last 4 games which will feature good teams in the hunt for playoff spots and home field positioning.

[West Chester Raven]

Good article - thanks for posting. The loss to the Steelers was about as costly as a loss can be.
Actually, it is time, not to panic, but to realize that the loss will in all likelihood break the season. You can put any positive spin you want on it but everybody knows that the loss was huge and may even cost us the division with the remaining schedule.
After watching the game a second time yesterday and seeing how vulnerable we are on defense, we will be lucky to go 2-2 the rest of the way. I'll still be there rooting this team on - but I am also realistic.

[ivanbalt]

SI crapped all over the Ravens after the loss to Houston too. It gives them something to do when they're not praising New England for winning the worst (by far) division year after year.

Not saying Don Banks is wrong, but these articles are to be expected.

[Andy in Hagerstown]

I've been batting it around with a lot of friends about how this season will end and most have said we'll be fine and we'll make the playoffs. We probably will make the playoffs.

But I asked them this question, what is more likely that the Ravens go 4-0 in the last four games or 0-4? Most had to admit that 0-4 was a more liley senario than 4-0. This gave them some pause in thinking about the next four games against four either tough or hungry teams.

In some ways I almost wish for a season ending slump that might prompt those in the castle to make some real changes in staff particularly on offense. But of course being a Ravens fan I hope we get our act together and get into the playoffs.

But my real fear is that this organization has accepted being good but don't do what is necessary to be great. The pattern is their and it's alarming.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I've been batting it around with a lot of friends about how this season will end and most have said we'll be fine and we'll make the playoffs. We probably will make the playoffs.

But I asked them this question, what is more likely that the Ravens go 4-0 in the last four games or 0-4? Most had to admit that 0-4 was a more liley senario than 4-0. This gave them some pause in thinking about the next four games against four either tough or hungry teams.

In some ways I almost wish for a season ending slump that might prompt those in the castle to make some real changes in staff particularly on offense. But of course being a Ravens fan I hope we get our act together and get into the playoffs.

But my real fear is that this organization has accepted being good but don't do what is necessary to be great. The pattern is their and it's alarming.

You seem to have softened your stance somewhat. Previously, you stated unequivocally that the Ravens, with their current coaching staff/FO, will never get to the next level. Or did I misunderstand?

[NCBirdfan]

I've been batting it around with a lot of friends about how this season will end and most have said we'll be fine and we'll make the playoffs. We probably will make the playoffs.

But I asked them this question, what is more likely that the Ravens go 4-0 in the last four games or 0-4? Most had to admit that 0-4 was a more liley senario than 4-0. This gave them some pause in thinking about the next four games against four either tough or hungry teams.

In some ways I almost wish for a season ending slump that might prompt those in the castle to make some real changes in staff particularly on offense. But of course being a Ravens fan I hope we get our act together and get into the playoffs.

But my real fear is that this organization has accepted being good but don't do what is necessary to be great. The pattern is their and it's alarming.

I agree with most of what you posted, but "accepting" what may be the fifth straight playoff appearance is what we fans will have to do.

There are two ways to look at this:

1. The Ravens have made the playoffs each year under Harbaugh, and Cameron of course. Despite some obvious coaching flaws, the Ravens coaching staff did a pretty good job getting the team prepared for the season. The Ravens may have not won the Super Bowl, but they got into the playoffs to set up that opportunity each year; and getting the opportunity is what a team needs to do to eventually get to the promise land. Teams in the playoffs are only a short winning streak from winning it all.

2. Harbaugh and company made the playoffs mainly because the talent was there and the teams were able to defeat enough "inferior" teams to get to the postseason, year-in and year-out. The teams of the past five years won in spite of the coaches. The coaching just was not good enough when the team played the elite (playoff) teams and sputtered in the end. This is the reason the Ravens need new blood - to take them over the hump.

If you agree with the first argument, then you just sit back and wait; you enjoy the trip as every year your team gets to the playoffs. Many other fans really don't have that fortune. You are happy the team is always good, even though it has come up short of the championship at this point.

If you agree with the second argument, you feel getting "better" coaches will mean better results. You feel there needs to be a major change. But with change, especially change from a team that by all accounts has been successful for 5 year, could give results that may not be positive.

There are two major examples where other teams have been impatient with coaches that just got them into the playoffs, but never winning it all.

1. Bum Phillips coached the Houston Oilers to the playoffs consistently, but was canned one year when his team lost in the playoffs. After his firing, the Oilers never were the same. In fact, things got so bad they had to move their franchise to another city.

2. A recent example is in San Diego, where Marty Schottenheimer finished the season with a 15-1 regular season record only to be fired after his team lost in the playoffs. How many Super Bowls have the Chargers been in since? Have they been better after Schottenheimer's exit?

[JasonM]

@NCBirdfan, that was an excellent post, one of the best things I've read here lately.

I'll take a team that goes to the playoffs 4-5 years in a row over a team that doesn't any day. I hope every year that they'll win the Super Bowl, but if they don't I won't be coming here to post "I'm done" or whatever, I'll still be a fan. That doesn't mean I won't criticize them when they screw up.

As for better coaches:
Cameron drives me crazy just too, but who is the OC who will take this team the way it is and make them a Super Bowl Champion? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

[OriginalColtsFan]

As for better coaches:
Cameron drives me crazy just too, but who is the OC who will take this team the way it is and make them a Super Bowl Champion? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

LOL. There are a TON of coaches out there, and you can't think of ONE who could POSSIBLY be better than Cameron. I think the limitation is in your scouting ability, NOT on the lack of better coaches out there. Every time I hear the "Who are the better coaches?" line it just makes me cringe. (For one...JIM CALDWELL is better than Cameron. And he is RIGHT HERE ALREADY. Saunders is better than Cameron, and HE was here already. So really...don't roll out that tired nonsense, okay?) Just my 2 cents.

[JasonM]

LOL. There are a TON of coaches out there, and you can't think of ONE who could POSSIBLY be better than Cameron. I think the limitation is in your scouting ability, NOT on the lack of better coaches out there. Every time I hear the "Who are the better coaches?" line it just makes me cringe. (For one...JIM CALDWELL is better than Cameron. And he is RIGHT HERE ALREADY. Saunders is better than Cameron, and HE was here already. So really...don't roll out that tired nonsense, okay?) Just my 2 cents.

I didn't say no one is better, I asked who is the OC capable of taking this group of players and winning a Super Bowl with them. I can think of plenty of OCs better than Cameron, but they already have jobs with other teams. Al Saunders is a journeyman assistant who hasn't won anything without Kurt Warner and Mike Martz helping him out, and that was 13 years ago.

[ms maggie]

This game with Washington is critical--have to assume a loss in at least one of the final 3 games--for my money against Denver. So finish 12-4 with a win over Redskins which may be enough for a first round bye.

[baltiMOREO&R]

This game with Washington is critical--have to assume a loss in at least one of the final 3 games--for my money against Denver. So finish 12-4 with a win over Redskins which may be enough for a first round bye.

OK - I'll do the math for everyone... NE holds the #2 seed with the tiebreaker over the Ravens... that technically is a 1 game lead.

so... if the Ravens go 3-1, what 2 games will the Pats be losing to grant us said 1st round bye?

[OriginalColtsFan]

I didn't say no one is better, I asked who is the OC capable of taking this group of players and winning a Super Bowl with them. I can think of plenty of OCs better than Cameron, but they already have jobs with other teams. Al Saunders is a journeyman assistant who hasn't won anything without Kurt Warner and Mike Martz helping him out, and that was 13 years ago.

Do YOU have a crystal ball? Does ANYONE have a crystal ball? The very premise of your question is absurd. Who knows WHICH OC is "capable of taking this group of players and winning a Super Bowl with them?" You're asking the wrong question! The REAL question is WHICH OC IS BETTER THAN CAM CAMERON? And the answer is: "JUST ABOUT ANYBODY"!

[NCBirdfan]

@NCBirdfan, that was an excellent post, one of the best things I've read here lately.

I'll take a team that goes to the playoffs 4-5 years in a row over a team that doesn't any day. I hope every year that they'll win the Super Bowl, but if they don't I won't be coming here to post "I'm done" or whatever, I'll still be a fan. That doesn't mean I won't criticize them when they screw up.

As for better coaches:
Cameron drives me crazy just too, but who is the OC who will take this team the way it is and make them a Super Bowl Champion? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to read it. I'm happy with the way the Ravens have been winning the past five years. That doesn't mean I'll get too upset if the Ravens can Cameron, because I feel, if there really needs to be a change, the Ravens will do it before next season. It would be interesting to see what the post-Cameron era would be like. Equally, if they keep him again, as long as the Ravens keep on winning, I can't really complain too much with the results. But I certainly would like to see a little more variation in the play calling.

[raven1959]

OK - I'll do the math for everyone... NE holds the #2 seed with the tiebreaker over the Ravens... that technically is a 1 game lead.

so... if the Ravens go 3-1, what 2 games will the Pats be losing to grant us said 1st round bye?

how does NE hold the tie breaker over the Ravens? I we have head to head which is the 1st tie breaker

[Rael]

how does NE hold the tie breaker over the Ravens? I we have head to head which is the 1st tie breaker

In a three way tie head to head gets thrown out.

[ms maggie]

OK - I'll do the math for everyone... NE holds the #2 seed with the tiebreaker over the Ravens... that technically is a 1 game lead.

so... if the Ravens go 3-1, what 2 games will the Pats be losing to grant us said 1st round bye?

Didn't Baltimore beat NE? Isn't that the tie breaker?