Flacco's Pocket Presence

[chrisbraven]

I've posted an entry on the 4th and 29 blog illustrating with pictures Flacco's recent missed opportunities in his pocket presence. You are invited to check it out. Thanks.

http://4thand29.blogspot.com/2012/12....html?spref=tw

Braven

[Baltimore Ravens Lets Go!]

Good analysis. I was watching Touchdown Baltimore and both Tom Davis and Bruce Laird were talking about Flacco having pocket presence issues. Laird said that it can be coached (the internal clock to know when you need to unload the ball or run) but that Flacco should have it by now and since he doesn't he probably never will. Davis said that the amount of fumbles and lost fumbles by Joe is absurd.

I also agree with some folks posting on other threads that it doesn't appear that Caldwell has done anything to help Joe. His stats now are actually worse than previously but that could be due to poor OL play.

[afan]

All big QB's have problems with getting hit from behind. Vinny fumbled many times but QB's have the ball in one hand and run looking for a receiver. Maybe, just maybe this is why so many fumble after getting hit from behind,Ya think

[afan]

Good analysis. I was watching Touchdown Baltimore and both Tom Davis and Bruce Laird were talking about Flacco having pocket presence issues. Laird said that it can be coached (the internal clock to know when you need to unload the ball or run) but that Flacco should have it by now and since he doesn't he probably never will. Davis said that the amount of fumbles and lost fumbles by Joe is absurd.

I also agree with some folks posting on other threads that it doesn't appear that Caldwell has done anything to help Joe. His stats now are actually worse than previously but that could be due to poor OL play.

Next game take a stopwatch and see how much time the opposing QB gets compared to Joe. The Pitt game Joe got about 4 seconds compared to Charlie getting 5 and more. This says alot. All QB's in the NFL no matter how bad they are would look pretty good with that much time.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Next game take a stopwatch and see how much time the opposing QB gets compared to Joe. The Pitt game Joe got about 4 seconds compared to Charlie getting 5 and more. This says alot. All QB's in the NFL no matter how bad they are would look pretty good with that much time.

Some games it's been less than 3 seconds. By definition, I think "pocket awareness" requires an actual pocket.

Just sayin...

[afan]

Some games it's been less than 3 seconds. By definition, I think "pocket awareness" requires an actual pocket.

Just sayin...

You think a guy like Charlie did well, wait til we see Manning. He may go 30 for 30 with no pressure. These vanilla blitz packages are to easy to block and just wait till other teams see Birk gets blown up in the middle at many times. Oher doesn't stay with his block and at times our guards look lost. Joe wants to run you can see it but I think Cam and John have told him not to. Bottom line a good college QB could eat the Ravens up if given 5 to 6 seconds. Pees was a bust in NE and why the Ravens hired him is beyond me.

[RavingManiac]

Whoa! You just hold on one cotton pickin minute. According to many posters on here, our receivers can't get open and/or get separation. Are you some kind of Flacco hater or something?

[OriginalColtsFan]

You think a guy like Charlie did well, wait til we see Manning. He may go 30 for 30 with no pressure. These vanilla blitz packages are to easy to block and just wait till other teams see Birk gets blown up in the middle at many times. Oher doesn't stay with his block and at times our guards look lost. Joe wants to run you can see it but I think Cam and John have told him not to. Bottom line a good college QB could eat the Ravens up if given 5 to 6 seconds. Pees was a bust in NE and why the Ravens hired him is beyond me.

I definitely get the feeling that Joe's been "coached" to STAY IN THE POCKET AND NOT RUN. The way I see it, the only solution to the current roster personnel is to switch over to more of a fast developing WCO design, with Joe operating primarily out of the shotgun. But Cameron stubbornly refuses to do that. So the woes continue.

[Ravens2006]

One suggestion... if you're going to put this much time (admirably) in to it, I'd recommend subscribing to NFL.com's Game Rewind with the "Coaches Film" access. It's easier to see if a QB "should" have moved to a certain spot / lane when you can also see where the receivers are and the routes they ran...

[OriginalColtsFan]

One suggestion... if you're going to put this much time (admirably) in to it, I'd recommend subscribing to NFL.com's Game Rewind with the "Coaches Film" access. It's easier to see if a QB "should" have moved to a certain spot / lane when you can also see where the receivers are and the routes they ran...

Is it free or does it cost anything to subscribe?

(N/M...I see it costs $39.99 for the whole season. Not bad, really. Thanks.)

Have you watched it, and if so, does it shed any light on the matter of Joe's pocket awareness, yes/no?

[tigercruise]

Good job! You're hired.

[RavingManiac]

I definitely get the feeling that Joe's been "coached" to STAY IN THE POCKET AND NOT RUN. The way I see it, the only solution to the current roster personnel is to switch over to more of a fast developing WCO design, with Joe operating primarily out of the shotgun. But Cameron stubbornly refuses to do that. So the woes continue.

Isn't this proof that Flacco is kind of the problem here? Do you realize that all of your opinions are based basically on dreams, fantasies etc.? I base all my opinions on facts. You say Flacco would do so much better with a different offensive coordinator. That is based on your dream. You have no evidence whatsoever that he would do a lot better with a different OC because Cam is the only one he has ever known. You say Flacco would do better in the west coast offense. Again, based on your fantasy. You say Harbaugh is a bad head coach. The facts say he is a winner. You say with a different head coach, we would be winning super bowls. This is another fantasy. Wow. I think you may be living in a fantasy world.

[jamesdean]

Isn't this proof that Flacco is kind of the problem here? Do you realize that all of your opinions are based basically on dreams, fantasies etc.? I base all my opinions on facts. You say Flacco would do so much better with a different offensive coordinator. That is based on your dream. You have no evidence whatsoever that he would do a lot better with a different OC because Cam is the only one he has ever known. You say Flacco would do better in the west coast offense. Again, based on your fantasy. You say Harbaugh is a bad head coach. The facts say he is a winner. You say with a different head coach, we would be winning super bowls. This is another fantasy. Wow. I think you may be living in a fantasy world.

I've been watching Flacco since his rookie year and I do think he's much more suited to a West Coast-type offense. I think he's a below average, long range passer who consistently under throws fly patterns, despite this reputation he has of "strong-armed cannon for an arm." He's much more effective in the short to intermediate range and dramatically better when he's throwing out of play action which requires dedication to a running attack EVERY week. To me, in that environment, he's a very good quarterback. When Cameron tries to make him Tom Brady, he suffers accordingly and having a below average pass protecting line doesn't help. So, I do agree with "Original Colt" in that respect and no, I don't think he's imagining it. It's been there for everyone to see for almost 5 years. If getting a new OC will realize Flacco's strengths and not his weaknesses, I'm all for it. See ya Cam.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Isn't this proof that Flacco is kind of the problem here? Do you realize that all of your opinions are based basically on dreams, fantasies etc.? I base all my opinions on facts. You say Flacco would do so much better with a different offensive coordinator. That is based on your dream. You have no evidence whatsoever that he would do a lot better with a different OC because Cam is the only one he has ever known. You say Flacco would do better in the west coast offense. Again, based on your fantasy. You say Harbaugh is a bad head coach. The facts say he is a winner. You say with a different head coach, we would be winning super bowls. This is another fantasy. Wow. I think you may be living in a fantasy world.

Blah...blah...blah....

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Jim/York]

Good analysis. I was watching Touchdown Baltimore and both Tom Davis and Bruce Laird were talking about Flacco having pocket presence issues. Laird said that it can be coached (the internal clock to know when you need to unload the ball or run) but that Flacco should have it by now and since he doesn't he probably never will. Davis said that the amount of fumbles and lost fumbles by Joe is absurd.

I also agree with some folks posting on other threads that it doesn't appear that Caldwell has done anything to help Joe. His stats now are actually worse than previously but that could be due to poor OL play.

Is it Caldwell or the playcalling. Maybe Caldwell has a better idea on the pass plays that Joe could call that would benefit him more that what Cam calls. I still say that they take too many chances down field which, 1. takes longer and 2. lower % play. Where have all the slants and crossing pattern gone. They take less time to run.

[West Chester Raven]

Is it Caldwell or the playcalling. Maybe Caldwell has a better idea on the pass plays that Joe could call that would benefit him more that what Cam calls. I still say that they take too many chances down field which, 1. takes longer and 2. lower % play. Where have all the slants and crossing pattern gone. They take less time to run.

Cam's an idiot, Caldwell's an idiot, Harbaugh is an idiot, let's see who else? Ray lewis should be benched, Ed Reed stinks, our receivers are no good, the line stinks.

But Flacco, - now he is golden. If only we could surround him smart with coaches and better players, then he would be great!

[West Chester Raven]

I've been watching Flacco since his rookie year and I do think he's much more suited to a West Coast-type offense. I think he's a below average, long range passer who consistently under throws fly patterns, despite this reputation he has of "strong-armed cannon for an arm." He's much more effective in the short to intermediate range and dramatically better when he's throwing out of play action which requires dedication to a running attack EVERY week. To me, in that environment, he's a very good quarterback. When Cameron tries to make him Tom Brady, he suffers accordingly and having a below average pass protecting line doesn't help. So, I do agree with "Original Colt" in that respect and no, I don't think he's imagining it. It's been there for everyone to see for almost 5 years. If getting a new OC will realize Flacco's strengths and not his weaknesses, I'm all for it. See ya Cam.

You need NFL players who fit the west coast offensive system to run this offense.
Quarterbacks - The QB needs to have good decision making skills and be able to throw the football with accuracy versus arm strength.

He must be able to choose from multiple receivers and throw the football quickly. Being able to run and get out of the pocket is a big plus.

I'm not sure Flacco makes fast enough decisions to execute the WC offense effectively. This is all conjecture - of course, but that works both ways. Is Joe accurate? His stats say: Not really. A completion % in the lower third of the league.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I'm not sure...

Yep. That right there says it all. Case closed.

[TeamofSTEEL]

Flacco is Scott Mitchell or Drew Bledsoe without their speed running ability ; )

[West Chester Raven]

Yep. That right there says it all. Case closed.

And neither are you. You've become quite callous this year. A "know-it-all" who bases his assessments not on Joe's stats (which cannot support your opinion of him), but on your own set of metrics which include the teams W-L record and using the coaching staff as the scapegoat for Joe's limitations.

You are in the minority. OCF - you ever read comments on Jamison Hensley's column on ESPN? Read the AFC North blog sometime. Read anywhere people voice their opinions and you'll see that most people see Flacco for the average player he is. Guess Joe Theismann is an idiot too - right? Read his comments on Joe? He isn't as smart as you though.

I do hope we win today. Let's see how your boy Flacco does. Of course if he doesn't play well, then of course it is Cam's fault LOL! How embarrassing for you that you have to invent excuses for your guy's performance. He doesn't perform and you blame EVERYONE except him. 5 years and he is STILL making the same mistakes. But it isn't his fault. He has actually REGRESSED but the team should pay him even more and get a new OC!
Guess what pal? Joe will get franchised, then he will get cut loose within a year or two. Bet on it.