Ravens should fire Cam and franchise Joe.

[PurpleBird]

I still can't grasp why there is so much lack of appreciation for Flacco. Really Alex Smith or Vick? You have got to be kidding. Those Td's that Flacco threw today were incredible throws. Did he have a great game today no, but he put his team in a position to win and played pretty darn good. None of us really know how much Cam is holding him and this offense back. They came out firing in the 1st half and the 2nd half they got stymied. Was the fumble his fault,part of it was, but a lot of blame should go to Oher who looked like a turntable on that play. CAM has NEVER shown that he can make adjustments when other teams Defense's start to figure out how to stop what they are doing.

[cprenegade]

Unless Joe is willing to come down off his contract demands (which is still very possible) then they will franchise him or let him go. Ozzie doesn't truly want to start over at QB, it would take an RGIII clone being available to them in the draft in order for him to cut bait with Joe. Peyton Manning was right there for them and they didn't even sniff him so they did this to themselves. The free agent QB market is expected to be weak and if Joe hits the open market he will be one of the top QBs available. A weak market leads to overspending just like in baseball (Zack Greinke).

I posted a thread about taking a chance on Manning back in the offseason and practically got laughed off of the board. It was only a hypothetical thread that was geared toward sigining Manning and trading Flacco for a high draft pick. I believe ChrisBraven also suggested something similar. The overwhelming belief was that both of us were out of our minds to even suggest such a thing. I really didn't even think it was a great idea, but just an out of the box type of thing to pass the time. After seeing how Manning has an otherwise somewhat mediocre Denver team playing as well as any other team, I'm not so sure it was that far fetched.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Please explain this to AVATAR, this dude just suggested Alex Smith and Michael Vick for the Ravens, anyone have a drug test available? LOL I want the Ravens to let Joe go just to prove how truly valuable he is and to complete the Ravens fall from grace. As a true Ravens fan I don't want them to fall apart but that is out of my control.

I feel your pain, Sugar. But this crash has been coming for a while. And the truth is...it's not only out of YOUR control...from their actions, it appears to be out of the FO's control as well. Or, more accurately...the FO appears to be out of control. They keep spinning and spinning and spinning...and I think they've gotten themselves so dizzy, they don't honestly know which way is forward, and which was is backward. Invariably, though, they WILL franchise Joe and hold him captive one more year. They will probably need to restructure Ngata's contract, and probably a few others as well. They will NOT do anything significant about the O-line. They might or might not fire Cameron. They will NOT fire Rossburg. They will most likely retain Pees. And they'll make some marginal moves. And THAT will be your 2013 Baltimore Ravens.

[PurpleBird]

I posted a thread about taking a chance on Manning back in the offseason and practically got laughed off of the board. It was only a hypothetical thread that was geared toward sigining Manning and trading Flacco for a high draft pick. I believe ChrisBraven also suggested something similar. The overwhelming belief was that both of us were out of our minds to even suggest such a thing. I really didn't even think it was a great idea, but just an out of the box type of thing to pass the time. After seeing how Manning has an otherwise somewhat mediocre Denver team playing as well as any other team, I'm not so sure it was that far fetched.

Looking back on it now it's easy to say it wasn't far fetched. But, realistically who knew he would come back and play as well as he has. He def. lost a lot of arm strength and how many years does he have left in the tank?

[SugarRay52]

I posted a thread about taking a chance on Manning back in the offseason and practically got laughed off of the board. It was only a hypothetical thread that was geared toward sigining Manning and trading Flacco for a high draft pick. I believe ChrisBraven also suggested something similar. The overwhelming belief was that both of us were out of our minds to even suggest such a thing. I really didn't even think it was a great idea, but just an out of the box type of thing to pass the time. After seeing how Manning has an otherwise somewhat mediocre Denver team playing as well as any other team, I'm not so sure it was that far fetched.

I remember your thread and I got into it with chrisbraven for bringing up Manning coming here (I thought it was no point in bringing up Manning since the Ravens weren't going to make the move anyway). Flacco's performance in the AFC Title game is one of the reasons why the Ravens didn't sniff Manning. I want Joe here but he needs an elite OC (Norv Turner) and Cameron needs an elite QB to offset his control. The Ravens have to keep Joe and get rid of Cameron.

[SugarRay52]

I feel your pain, Sugar. But this crash has been coming for a while. And the truth is...it's not only out of YOUR control...from their actions, it appears to be out of the FO's control as well. Or, more accurately...the FO appears to be out of control. They keep spinning and spinning and spinning...and I think they've gotten themselves so dizzy, they don't honestly know which way is forward, and which was is backward. Invariably, though, they WILL franchise Joe and hold him captive one more year. They will probably need to restructure Ngata's contract, and probably a few others as well. They will NOT do anything significant about the O-line. They might or might not fire Cameron. They will NOT fire Rossburg. They will most likely retain Pees. And they'll make some marginal moves. And THAT will be your 2013 Baltimore Ravens.

Everything you said will likely end up being true, is it crazy to think that the Orioles are more on the upswing than the Ravens are despite not spending in free agency. Buck is a much better leader of men than Harbaugh is.

[TDL]

Unless Joe is willing to come down off his contract demands (which is still very possible) then they will franchise him or let him go. Ozzie doesn't truly want to start over at QB, it would take an RGIII clone being available to them in the draft in order for him to cut bait with Joe. Peyton Manning was right there for them and they didn't even sniff him so they did this to themselves. The free agent QB market is expected to be weak and if Joe hits the open market he will be one of the top QBs available. A weak market leads to overspending just like in baseball (Zack Greinke).

I would prefer that Flacco stay as well. Just not at $16-20 million per season because he's not worth it.When parts of the offensive team are faltering such as the OL is having an off day or the wideouts or RB's are slagging off elite QB's are able to pull the team together and escape with a W.Joe just doesn't do that.Put a little pressure on him and get in his face and he inevitably cracks and starts making mistakes.

Not putting it all on him but two weeks in a row he has been sacked and lost the ball twice late in games which has lead to two losses.Pocket awareness and decision making is the difference between being 11-2 in line for a bye and the number two seed or 9-4 and trying to avoid a third straight loss.They were fortunate to beat the Steelers a few weeks back after not scoring one offensive TD.They were lucky to beat San Diego.It was a fluke.They were lucky to beat KC.They were lucky to beat Dallas.In all rights they should be 7-7.Poor coaching,mediocre Defense and a mediocre Offense lead by a mediocre QB.

[AVATAR]

Everything you said will likely end up being true, is it crazy to think that the Orioles are more on the upswing than the Ravens are despite not spending in free agency. Buck is a much better leader of men than Harbaugh is.

Thinking outside the box doesn't require a drug but plausible options when faced with perceived issues. I'm one of the fans that is not fixated on Flacco, R Lewis, or EdDie Reed. The same issues with Ravens crop up every year. Same basic breakdowns. Now seemingly on both sides of the ball. It was forewarned thee Ravens defense would slow and it has rapidly. In the big scheme of things I'd say Flacco shouldn't be payed as an elite QB because he isn't. I'll check in and see if your still kissing his as@ once the negotiations kick in. I personally wouldn't allow Flacc's to hold hostage my team, options or payroll. Checkout the results when R Lewis & Ed Reed did just that. One now on the bench and one that needs to be. lol

[SugarRay52]

Thinking outside the box doesn't require a drug but plausible options when faced with perceived issues. I'm one of the fans that is not fixated on Flacco, R Lewis, or EdDie Reed. The same issues with Ravens crop up every year. Same basic breakdowns. Now seemingly on both sides of the ball. It was forewarned thee Ravens defense would slow and it has rapidly. In the big scheme of things I'd say Flacco shouldn't be payed as an elite QB because he isn't. I'll check in and see if your still kissing his as@ once the negotiations kick in. I personally wouldn't allow Flacc's to hold hostage my team, options or payroll. Checkout the results when R Lewis & Ed Reed did just that. One now on the bench and one that needs to be. lol

I have a major problem with you for suggesting Alex Smith and Michael Vick, that's my problem with you. You hate on Flacco but just like the other Flacco haters you can't name a true replacement for him. There will be no Peyton Manning or Drew Bress available on the open market nor will there be an RGIII clone available in the draft. Whether you like it or not Flacco is here to stay and has three games left to earn his money, it ain't over yet jerk.

[AVATAR]

I have a major problem with you for suggesting Alex Smith and Michael Vick, that's my problem with you. You hate on Flacco but just like the other Flacco haters you can't name a true replacement for him. There will be no Peyton Manning or Drew Bress available on the open market nor will there be an RGIII clone available in the draft. Whether you like it or not Flacco is here to stay and has three games left to earn his money, it ain't over yet jerk.

Get a grip and a clue. Flacco is very good, dude. Thee answer? (maybe or maybe not). But convincing a 10 yr old may prove too difficult for me. lol

If the world belonged to your it would be as boring as your last post to me. But keep posting. Your humorous.
P>S. Alex Smith.

[tommyb]

I feel your pain, Sugar. But this crash has been coming for a while. And the truth is...it's not only out of YOUR control...from their actions, it appears to be out of the FO's control as well. Or, more accurately...the FO appears to be out of control. They keep spinning and spinning and spinning...and I think they've gotten themselves so dizzy, they don't honestly know which way is forward, and which was is backward. Invariably, though, they WILL franchise Joe and hold him captive one more year. They will probably need to restructure Ngata's contract, and probably a few others as well. They will NOT do anything significant about the O-line. They might or might not fire Cameron. They will NOT fire Rossburg. They will most likely retain Pees. And they'll make some marginal moves. And THAT will be your 2013 Baltimore Ravens.

I am on the same page with you OCF, and I always seem to agree with your insights and opinions. What you said above is disheartening, but it is most likely how things will play out. The thought that they might NOT get rid of either Cameron, or Pees just kills any excitement I might have for the coming season. We will have players on the mend, young players in the pipeline, a fresh new season to 'right the ship', and we will likely be stuck with the same tired, backward, uninspired coaching staff, led by a Head Coach that does not lead! Two years ago I would have never believed that Cam would still be with the team in 2012.....much less in 2013! Its hard to get your heart into a team that you KNOW is destined to lose, ultimately.

If Bisciotti truly believes in 'A' level talent, and is the business man we think him to be, then he HAS TO step up at some point, do the evaluations, and make major moves at the top. This show is not going anywhere this year....much less in the next few years.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I am on the same page with you OCF, and I always seem to agree with your insights and opinions. What you said above is disheartening, but it is most likely how things will play out. The thought that they might NOT get rid of either Cameron, or Pees just kills any excitement I might have for the coming season. We will have players on the mend, young players in the pipeline, a fresh new season to 'right the ship', and we will likely be stuck with the same tired, backward, uninspired coaching staff, led by a Head Coach that does not lead! Two years ago I would have never believed that Cam would still be with the team in 2012.....much less in 2013! Its hard to get your heart into a team that you KNOW is destined to lose, ultimately.

If Bisciotti truly believes in 'A' level talent, and is the business man we think him to be, then he HAS TO step up at some point, do the evaluations, and make major moves at the top. This show is not going anywhere this year....much less in the next few years.

Likewise, tommyb, I always enjoy reading your posts as well. I wish you'd post more often to give this board some much needed balance.

One thing to consider, in terms of positive energy:

Even though this season has been a tortuous roller coaster ride for the Ravens and their fans, the simple tweak of replacing Cameron with Caldwell, even at this late stage of the game, could bring exponential results. The Ravens have not lost very many games by a lot of points; in fact, aside from Houston, they've been in every game, win or lose. So the difference is not too huge to overcome. And with just the right energy and upgrade in playcalling, I think the offense could very well get hot at just the right time and take the Ravens deep into the playoffs. (By the same token, if this big "coaching change" is just some "going through the motions/scapegoat" firing of Moeller, then it'll just be more of the same.)

Just my 2 cents.