Meanwhile In Lansing, Michigan...

[songfourone]

My vocation is not my job.

Of course, I understand what that means

[CajunRaven]

"More than 24 states have banned union-security agreements by passing so-called "right to work" laws.

In these states, it is up to each employee at a workplace to decide whether or not to join the union and pay dues, even though all workers are protected by the collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the union."

https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-prote...ts-obligations

So in an idealistic world, those not particpating should negotiate their own salary and benefits. Not so simple to separate it out, I know.

There is the other side of that problem though, forcing people to join a group who may side with groups they oppose, especially in politics.

On the one hand, the employee gets the rights negotiated by the union.

On the other hand, the employee is forced to join a group who opposes their views.

Is either situation fair?

The only real solution is, if you make joining compulsory, you prohibit the union from any activity not directly related to the work environment, period. The representation is equal.

[soulflower]

Except that the unions don't have nearly the amount of money to throw behind candidates as corporations do.

I do, however, see what you mean regarding unions and my position isn't all that much different. I just think the people of MI are being fed a line of garbage. There's no way a Koch Bros sponsered ALEC written piece of legislation is intended to do anything other than further enrich the Koch Bros and members of ALEC.

Koch and ALEC don't give a flying fart about people who work 9 to 5

[flyboy56]

There's the problem as far as I can see. If you want to have right to work laws then that's fine, but it should go hand in hand with a loss of being protected by union negotiated collective bargaining agreements. Not sure if there's really a feasible way of doing that though.

I agree. What was the purpose for including non union members in the collective bargaining agreement?

[CajunRaven]

Koch and ALEC don't give a flying fart about people who work 9 to 5

I wonder how much different they are from Richard Trumpka.

I bet he cares more about his bottom line than anything else.

He's just another CEO in my book.

[songfourone]

My husbands union was founded because employers were pushing the limits of workers, putting them in jeopardy in what was already a very dangerous work environment.

In 30+ years I never heard my husband or another union member ever complain about paying union dues, the PAC was not mandatory, they were all very grateful that they had a union that worked hard to get great benefits and better working conditions for the members.

[soulflower]

I wonder how much different they are from Richard Trumpka.

I bet he cares more about his bottom line than anything else.

He's just another CEO in my book.

He may be defending a dying institution, labor unions, but his intentions are good. I can't say that the Koch brothers have good intentions....

[flyboy56]

So in an idealistic world, those not particpating should negotiate their own salary and benefits. Not so simple to separate it out, I know.

There is the other side of that problem though, forcing people to join a group who may side with groups they oppose, especially in politics.

On the one hand, the employee gets the rights negotiated by the union.

On the other hand, the employee is forced to join a group who opposes their views.

Is either situation fair?

The only real solution is, if you make joining compulsory, you prohibit the union from any activity not directly related to the work environment, period. The representation is equal.

Base wages are already determined depending on job classification. Employees are required to pay these wages or the employee can file a complaint with the NLRB. Wages can also be negotiated at job interviews. Just make sure you know you have the job before you start telling the interviewer what you want for a wage.

http://www.wdol.gov/

[flyboy56]

My husbands union was founded because employers were pushing the limits of workers, putting them in jeopardy in what was already a very dangerous work environment.

In 30+ years I never heard my husband or another union member ever complain about paying union dues, the PAC was not mandatory, they were all very grateful that they had a union that worked hard to get great benefits and better working conditions for the members.

And your example is exactly why unions can be beneficial to the employees. But not all employers are the same. Plus, workers can call OSHA if they have an unsafe work environment. And no on needs to know who called them. Companies do not like to see OSHA show up unexpectedly because they can usually find reasons to penalize companies.

[CajunRaven]

He may be defending a dying institution, labor unions, but his intentions are good. I can't say that the Koch brothers have good intentions....

Neither you nor I can really say what the intentions of either are.

Is Trumpka really interested in members interests or just getting more members? How is he compensated?

[CajunRaven]

Base wages are already determined depending on job classification. Employees are required to pay these wages or the employee can file a complaint with the NLRB. Wages can also be negotiated at job interviews. Just make sure you know you have the job before you start telling the interviewer what you want for a wage.

http://www.wdol.gov/

Base wages?

Where I work, they have salary ranges for each defined position, but those ranges are pretty wide. Other than minimum wage, I don't know where the NLRB can tell anyone what to pay.

Your link is in regards to government contracts. That's a different thing.

[OldBay]

So in an idealistic world, those not particpating should negotiate their own salary and benefits. Not so simple to separate it out, I know.

There is the other side of that problem though, forcing people to join a group who may side with groups they oppose, especially in politics.

On the one hand, the employee gets the rights negotiated by the union.

On the other hand, the employee is forced to join a group who opposes their views.

Is either situation fair?

The only real solution is, if you make joining compulsory, you prohibit the union from any activity not directly related to the work environment, period. The representation is equal.

Good balanced perspective - a rarity these days. Thanks for raising the level of discourse.

One minor quibble is that workers are not technically forced to join the union itself - although they may be compelled to pay fees to that union to offset the cost of collective bargaining only. This distinction is usually misunderstood and it is not helped by payroll deductions on pay stubs that indicate "dues" when they should indicate "fees".

Fees payers pay only for the cost of collective bargaining because they receive the same benefits that might result from the collective bargaining. in reality, these people may be upset because their unions have accepted massive concessions in this recession. For example, MD state employees have gone without COLAs, raises, increments etc for 6 years, and have lost benefits as well. This was considered preferable to more mass layoffs. The unions listened to their membership at meetings and then accepted the concessions at what passes for collective bargaining here. The complaining fees payers, not being members, don't attend union meetings.

Actual dues paying union members are eligible for benefits that the union itself provides. Some of the best benefits are the pre-paid legal representation or occupational liability insurance (what realtors call Errors & Omissions, or E&O insurance). Those professions in which the worker is vulnerable to personal lawsuits are highly represented in unions for this reason. I don't know one state tax assessor who flys without a parachute - every one I know is a union member to get this occupational liability insurance.

[banner1124]

And your example is exactly why unions can be beneficial to the employees. But not all employers are the same. Plus, workers can call OSHA if they have an unsafe work environment. And no on needs to know who called them. Companies do not like to see OSHA show up unexpectedly because they can usually find reasons to penalize companies.

That's funny cause I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks who are rabidly anti-union also don't like OSHA (or most other govt regulatory agencies for that matter).

[OldBay]

I do not know what union you work for but my husband's had a Political Action Fund, which was not mandatory, and it supported candidates that were better for the industry that the union was involved with.

Unions are required to account for donations for political action separate from union dues and non-member fees. It is a persistent myth that "dues" are donated to candidates.

[BlandFood]

Unions are required to account for donations for political action separate from union dues and non-member fees. It is a persistent myth that "dues" are donated to candidates.

Hence the rub, democratic party and that is no myth.

[flyboy56]

Base wages?

Where I work, they have salary ranges for each defined position, but those ranges are pretty wide. Other than minimum wage, I don't know where the NLRB can tell anyone what to pay.

Your link is in regards to government contracts. That's a different thing.

Here's the link for non government contract wages. It was on the same page I initially sent.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/#.UMj3447XdS8

[SemiAuto]

Unions are required to account for donations for political action separate from union dues and non-member fees. It is a persistent myth that "dues" are donated to candidates.

It is not exactly a myth once one understands that money is fungible.

[The Shadow]

Looks like they ID'd the thug member of the Pro-Obama, Democrat voting Union who violently attacked and punched the Fox news guy.

From Skeeter on the Free Republic:

" I read somewhere that the guy who threw the punches is Tony Cummings...

On June 1, Tony Cummings, former financial secretary for United Steelworkers of America Local 735, was indicted in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas for one count of theft in the amount of $6,451 from the Cleveland-based union and 10 counts of forgery. The charges follow an investigation by the Labor Department's Office of Labor-Management Standards.
Tony Cummings Union Corruption Update United Steelworkers of America (USW) Carl Horowitz's blog "

[soulflower]

Neither you nor I can really say what the intentions of either are.

Is Trumpka really interested in members interests or just getting more members?

He can't be interested in both?

[BlandFood]

Looks like they ID'd the thug member of the Pro-Obama, Democrat voting Union who violently attacked and punched the Fox news guy.

From Skeeter on the Free Republic:

" I read somewhere that the guy who threw the punches is Tony Cummings...

On June 1, Tony Cummings, former financial secretary for United Steelworkers of America Local 735, was indicted in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas for one count of theft in the amount of $6,451 from the Cleveland-based union and 10 counts of forgery. The charges follow an investigation by the Labor Department's Office of Labor-Management Standards.
Tony Cummings Union Corruption Update United Steelworkers of America (USW) Carl Horowitz's blog "

Now there's a shock for ya! Maybe he gave the STOLEN money to cancer research or church building fun but I kinda ****ing doubt it. Typical of his ilk, scum of the earth. I hope he gets lynched.