R.I.P. MIAA "A" Conference Championship

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

I believe you when you say that Gilman does this for many students (athletes and non-athletes) with an emphasis on academic development prior to the 9th grade year but you can't tell me that it has never been abused or used solely to keep a stud around for additional physical development. Any time a loophole can be used in any institution it usually is at some point. The fact of the matter is that Gilman can do what they want, they are a private institution but I think it is a little misleading to say that they always redshirt a kid for purely academic and noble reasons. No institution is perfect or does the right thing all the time.

Of all the years that this has happen, to my knowledge its only been done 3 times(obviously I could be wrong) in 16 years. And in every case it helped the kid academically. Could the kid gone on straight to high school, in one case the answer is yes. But I also know that it helped the kid immensely because he realized just how hard the curriculum at the school was.

This is not some widespread practice.

[pmore108]

Of all the years that this has happen, to my knowledge its only been done 3 times(obviously I could be wrong) in 16 years. And in every case it helped the kid academically. Could the kid gone on straight to high school, in one case the answer is yes. But I also know that it helped the kid immensely because he realized just how hard the curriculum at the school was.

This is not some widespread practice.

I am sure it did help them academically. You have to admit though it is a huge advantage to be able to do that. Like I said previously it also isn't like some others who hate all things private school make it out to be where every football player is taking 8th grade twice either. It's a pretty gray area.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

I am sure it did help them academically. You have to admit though it is a huge advantage to be able to do that. Like I said previously it also isn't like some others who hate all things private school make it out to be where every football player is taking 8th grade twice either. It's a pretty gray area.

I don't think of it in an athletic standpoint. It's a huge advantage to have a lower and middle school, period. Being close to the school, I know the inner workings. I know that it's not about just football. I know the fact that there have been multiple kid who tried to get into the Gilman middle school who were stud athletes and turned down and not offered the option of repeating a grade. Outsiders assume certain things to help with their arguments about the program.

[TheGuru]

Outsiders assume certain things to help with their arguments about the program.

Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black! You constantly assume much when you make outlandish statements about Donald Davis' scheduling "fears" and Calvert Hall "throwing in the towel" against Gilman & McDonogh. I know it pisses you off that CHC & Loyola had enough clout to keep the Turkey Bowl as is. It just proves that old money ain't everything Dawg.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black! You constantly assume much when you make outlandish statements about Donald Davis' scheduling "fears" and Calvert Hall "throwing in the towel" against Gilman & McDonogh. I know it pisses you off that CHC & Loyola had enough clout to keep the Turkey Bowl as is. It just proves that old money ain't everything Dawg.

I'm not assuming anything, when you constantly schedule teams like Niagara Academy and Maryland Christian, it's pretty easy to see that you're trying to pad wins and fear playing real teams. Truth is, I hope they keep doing things as is because it makes beating them that much easier. It also isn't helping in the recruiting wars either, word is Gilman is killing right now because of the dominance over CHC and the schedule they are playing.

If you think Biff and Gilman is just going to take this sitting down, you have another thing coming. I promise you, something is brewing.

[Jeebus]

Outsiders assume certain things to help with their arguments about the program.

Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black! You constantly assume much when you make outlandish statements about....

Glad to see someone else noticed GA's extreme hypocrisy in calling out "others" speaking about Gilman, yet he never throttles back on his own "I know it all" attitude when talking about every other school in the MIAA.

[TheGuru]

I'm not assuming anything, when you constantly schedule teams like Niagara Academy and Maryland Christian, it's pretty easy to see that you're trying to pad wins and fear playing real teams. Truth is, I hope they keep doing things as is because it makes beating them that much easier. It also isn't helping in the recruiting wars either, word is Gilman is killing right now because of the dominance over CHC and the schedule they are playing.

If you think Biff and Gilman is just going to take this sitting down, you have another thing coming. I promise you, something is brewing.

Good luck with the ESABBAA (Elitist Self-Absorbed Blue Blood Athletic Association) hinted at by your homeboy Eagles Insider. You two are ridiculous. Football is not about how much you can outspend your competitors by. It's an extracurricular part of the educational process. It's not about the size of a school's endowment.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

Good luck with the ESABBAA (Elitist Self-Absorbed Blue Blood Athletic Association) hinted at by your homeboy Eagles Insider. You two are ridiculous. Football is not about how much you can outspend your competitors by. It's an extracurricular part of the educational process. It's not about the size of a school's endowment.

I think Gilman and McDonogh's academics speak for themselves, you can't seriously be questioning their intentions!

It's definitely not about the school's endowment but I don't think that's what EI was saying. I think its funny that you make this comment about what EI said but you were the person that said that the non Catholic schools should leave the MIAA! So piggy backing off of that, I believe EI is saying that maybe their should be a regional conference of schools with like minded goals that aren't going to be handcuffed by some antiquated game that only matters to two schools.

[TheGuru]

I think Gilman and McDonogh's academics speak for themselves, you can't seriously be questioning their intentions!

It's definitely not about the school's endowment but I don't think that's what EI was saying. I think its funny that you make this comment about what EI said but you were the person that said that the non Catholic schools should leave the MIAA! So piggy backing off of that, I believe EI is saying that maybe their should be a regional conference of schools with like minded goals that aren't going to be handcuffed by some antiquated game that only matters to two schools.

Nobody said anything about academics. EI mentioned a regional super conference with multi-million dollar endowments? You two made the point that Gildonogh should leave the league. I just said good riddance. I realize that the Catholic schools are to you two what the "47%" we're to Romney.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

Nobody said anything about academics. EI mentioned a regional super conference with multi-million dollar endowments? You two made the point that Gildonogh should leave the league. I just said good riddance. I realize that the Catholic schools are to you two what the "47%" we're to Romney.

You said it's the extracurricular part of the EDUCATIONAL process, as if Gilman or McDonogh doesn't know this.

If they go back to the Stone Ages and decide to not have a playoffs, they should leave the league. The Turkey Bowl has already held up a merger with the WCAC and now we can't even have a playoffs? That's ridiculous! I understand the schools realize that they would never beat Gilman in a final but come on! Where's your pride?

[TheGuru]

You said it's the extracurricular part of the EDUCATIONAL process, as if Gilman or McDonogh doesn't know this.

If they go back to the Stone Ages and decide to not have a playoffs, they should leave the league. The Turkey Bowl has already held up a merger with the WCAC and now we can't even have a playoffs? That's ridiculous! I understand the schools realize that they would never beat Gilman in a final but come on! Where's your pride?

I'd rather CHC play a good public school up this way than play McNamara or Carroll or any other WCAC team not named Good Counsel or DeMatha. Who wants to travel to Northern Va. to watch their team play a school that nobody knows or cares about. The rivalries born out of the old MSA are good enough for me. The problem is Poggi and his quest for world domination muddied the waters so much that you look past his unethical behavior.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

I'd rather CHC play a good public school up this way than play McNamara or Carroll or any other WCAC team not named Good Counsel or DeMatha. Who wants to travel to Northern Va. to watch their team play a school that nobody knows or cares about. The rivalries born out of the old MSA are good enough for me. The problem is Poggi and his quest for world domination muddied the waters so much that you look past his unethical behavior.

Pretty much sure plenty people can cry foul on many people in the Area and not agree with what they may or may not do. I know the CHC people cry foul over what you believe Poggi does with his money. It's his money, he can do whatever he likes.

I know the CHC people hate the fact that Dancel'a working with Poggi, crazy thing is, I never hear GC people say a word and their field is named after him. You know why, because they aren't afraid of Gilman and still out there getting kids without the moaning.

Fact is, CHC/Loyola are afraid of Gilman and saw no light at the end of the tunnel, so they threw in the towel and gave up. Now they have taken the rest of the league down with them! Only League in the state without a playoffs, pitiful!!!

[eaglesinsider]

I'd rather CHC play a good public school up this way than play McNamara or Carroll or any other WCAC team not named Good Counsel or DeMatha. Who wants to travel to Northern Va. to watch their team play a school that nobody knows or cares about. The rivalries born out of the old MSA are good enough for me. The problem is Poggi and his quest for world domination muddied the waters so much that you look past his unethical behavior.

Here's the thing though, the WCAC-MIAA merger that was being floated included Baltimore and DC divisions. You would play the 6 teams in your division and 1-2 crossover games, so you'd maybe be going to 1 WCAC school a year. The bad WCAC teams would have either been excluded and put in the B Conference. Didn't really hinder non-conference scheduling.

Baltimore Division
McDonogh
Gilman
Calvert Hall
Loyola
Mount St. Joe
Spalding (originally to be Georgetown Prep)

DC Division
DeMatha
Good Counsel
McNamara
Gonzaga
St. John's
Archbishop Carroll.

O'Connell and Paul VI would probably have not joined in MIAA to play in the B Conference, they would have probably looked to the VISFA (VA private school league).

You would have played 10-11 regular season games. 2-3 non-conference games, 6 division games, 2 crossover games, a division final playoff game between the 2 teams with the best record, and a Baltimore/DC championship game rotating between major stadiums in the Baltimore/DC area.

As for my regional league proposal, my reasons for wanting schools with high endowments is it shows schools with long term stability and that have successful and wealthy alumni bases. I was forced to look regionally because there are not enough non-Catholic schools in the state of MD. Any attempt to create a state league would have had Baltimore Lutheran playing with McDonogh and Gilman, which isn't good for anyone from a competitiveness standpoint. Looking regionally, which is necessary to get a league of good quality, you need schools that can afford to travel, schools with large endowments fit this profile and also tend to be similar to McD/Gilman in size, academic standards, and facilities.

[Outside Looking In]

Pretty much sure plenty people can cry foul on many people in the Area and not agree with what they may or may not do. I know the CHC people cry foul over what you believe Poggi does with his money. It's his money, he can do whatever he likes.

I know the CHC people hate the fact that Dancel'a working with Poggi, crazy thing is, I never hear GC people say a word and their field is named after him. You know why, because they aren't afraid of Gilman and still out there getting kids without the moaning.

Fact is, CHC/Loyola are afraid of Gilman and saw no light at the end of the tunnel, so they threw in the towel and gave up. Now they have taken the rest of the league down with them! Only League in the state without a playoffs, pitiful!!!

What other league has a playoff? Besides the MIAA what other leagues are their in the state? The MPSSAA schools have a playoff becasue they are over 30 schools in each classification. Each individual league does not have their own playoff. Why should a league with 6 or 7 teams have a playoff? That is what makes no sense. Join the MPSSAA or leave the MIAA and play in some fantasy league.

[eaglesinsider]

What other league has a playoff? Besides the MIAA what other leagues are their in the state? The MPSSAA schools have a playoff becasue they are over 30 schools in each classification. Each individual league does not have their own playoff. Why should a league with 6 or 7 teams have a playoff? That is what makes no sense. Join the MPSSAA or leave the MIAA and play in some fantasy league.

You have no idea what you are talking about, the MIAA B and C Conferences have playoffs, WCAC has playoffs, even the CAFC (small school MD/DC league) has a playoff. That is every individual league in the state except the MIAA A and the IAC, which only has 4 teams.

We all know that joining the MPSSAA isn't an option, they would never admit private schools even though MD, VA, and TX are the only 3 states with complete separation of public and private schools, although TX lets the 2 largest private schools play in their public school association because they're too large for any of the private school leagues.

Now FL and CA let publics and privates with similar enrollments compete against each other for state titles with no restrictions, and they happen to be the best 2 football states in the US. Makes you wonder if the quality of MD football would improve if public schools were playing McDonogh/St. Paul's for 1A state titles or Gilman for 2A state titles.

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

You have no idea what you are talking about, the MIAA B and C Conferences have playoffs, WCAC has playoffs, even the CAFC (small school MD/DC league) has a playoff. That is every individual league in the state except the MIAA A and the IAC, which only has 4 teams.

We all know that joining the MPSSAA isn't an option, they would never admit private schools even though MD, VA, and TX are the only 3 states with complete separation of public and private schools, although TX lets the 2 largest private schools play in their public school association because they're too large for any of the private school leagues.

Now FL and CA let publics and privates with similar enrollments compete against each other for state titles with no restrictions, and they happen to be the best 2 football states in the US. Makes you wonder if the quality of MD football would improve if public schools were playing McDonogh/St. Paul's for 1A state titles or Gilman for 2A state titles.

EI just ignore this guy, as you see I do. He only writes things to start some sort of argument regardless of facts. He's not a Jeebus or Jeebus's other screen name, sometimes he makes some valid points but more than not he just wants to push his agenda against privates(and Dunbar).

I don't actually count IAC because they have Virginia schools. The MIAA-A now would be the only conference that doesn't have a playoffs. The thing to me is, if they had never started the playoff system it would be one thing but once you decide to go the playoff route, it just looks completely asinine to go back to no playoffs. Especially if you added another school to the conference. In all seriousness without a playoff system, I honestly could care less about the MIAA season. I will care about two things, Gilman's OOC schedule and beating McDonogh. Any MIAA Champion from here on out will be nothing more than a paper champion and this includes Gilman.

[Irish Way]

Greyhound Alum knows everything about the Gilman Football Program, or at least posts like he does. Therefore, here are my questions for G.A.:

1) If the MIAA is comprised of programs significantly below Gilman (Loyola, MSJ, Spalding, St. Frances) and programs several notches below Gilman (CHC and McDonogh), why would Gilman want to play MORE GAMES against these teams? Between the last weekend in August to the third weekend in November, the Greyhounds could play 11-12 games. With an MIAA Playoff, that means Gilman is committed to 8 MIAA games (regular season + playoffs). Wouldn't Gilman be better served by playing just 6 games against the inferior opponents of the MIAA, and then 5-6 games against the national/regional powers. GA always talks about out-of-conference scheduling. Wouldn't more out-of-conf. games be better for the Hounds?

2) Is the Turkey Bowl an advantage or a disadvantage for Calvert Hall and Loyola? Considering the media coverage (in print, on-line, TV) that the game garners, the corporate involvement, the attendance, and the alumni's interest in the game, do these 2 programs benefit from the Turkey Bowl?

3) If, "yes" to Question #2, wouldn't it benefit Gilman to eliminate or destroy the Turkey Bowl, by any means neccessary?

4) Why is Bernie Dancel involved in Gilman's Football Program? He's not an alum, his sons did not attend there, he's not from Baltimore, it's not due to any religious affiliation (as Gilman is secular), and it can't be to help an impoverished school. So why is Dancel so interested in Gilman and why is he investing his money into their program?

5) GA used to contend that Gilman did not get every Football recruit it wanted due to Gilman's academic restictions. However, recently, he keeps chirping about how Gilman is getting every top-notch local recruit. Are the blue-chip players from Baltimore City smarter today than they were 3, 5, 10 years ago? Or, has Gilman lowered it's academic standards for Football?

6) How do Gilman's players from P.G. County and Montgomery County commute every day to/from the D.C. suburbs to Northern Baltimore? Who foots the bill for the very expensive travel expense this must incur?

7) If a majority of the "A" Conference schools wanted a Playoff 2 years ago, why do the majority now want to get rid of the Playoffs?

[Hallman]

Greyhound Alum knows everything about the Gilman Football Program, or at least posts like he does. Therefore, here are my questions for G.A.:

1) If the MIAA is comprised of programs significantly below Gilman (Loyola, MSJ, Spalding, St. Frances) and programs several notches below Gilman (CHC and McDonogh), why would Gilman want to play MORE GAMES against these teams? Between the last weekend in August to the third weekend in November, the Greyhounds could play 11-12 games. With an MIAA Playoff, that means Gilman is committed to 8 MIAA games (regular season + playoffs). Wouldn't Gilman be better served by playing just 6 games against the inferior opponents of the MIAA, and then 5-6 games against the national/regional powers. GA always talks about out-of-conference scheduling. Wouldn't more out-of-conf. games be better for the Hounds?

2) Is the Turkey Bowl an advantage or a disadvantage for Calvert Hall and Loyola? Considering the media coverage (in print, on-line, TV) that the game garners, the corporate involvement, the attendance, and the alumni's interest in the game, do these 2 programs benefit from the Turkey Bowl?

3) If, "yes" to Question #2, wouldn't it benefit Gilman to eliminate or destroy the Turkey Bowl, by any means neccessary?

4) Why is Bernie Dancel involved in Gilman's Football Program? He's not an alum, his sons did not attend there, he's not from Baltimore, it's not due to any religious affiliation (as Gilman is secular), and it can't be to help an impoverished school. So why is Dancel so interested in Gilman and why is he investing his money into their program?

5) GA used to contend that Gilman did not get every Football recruit it wanted due to Gilman's academic restictions. However, recently, he keeps chirping about how Gilman is getting every top-notch local recruit. Are the blue-chip players from Baltimore City smarter today than they were 3, 5, 10 years ago? Or, has Gilman lowered it's academic standards for Football?

6) How do Gilman's players from P.G. County and Montgomery County commute every day to/from the D.C. suburbs to Northern Baltimore? Who foots the bill for the very expensive travel expense this must incur?

7) If a majority of the "A" Conference schools wanted a Playoff 2 years ago, why do the majority now want to get rid of the Playoffs?

I'm guessing GA will not be replying to this post

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

I'm guessing GA will not be replying to this post

I mean what is there to reply to? Pretty much a dumb post outside of one question. The fact that anybody thinks that Gilman cares two shiits about the Turkey Bowl is laughable. The funny thing is, almost every CHC person I have talked to thinks going back to no playoffs is absolutely ridiculous and makes the school look scared. Haven't actually asked a Loyola person. But why would I? They have up on their program 4 years ago.

[eaglesinsider]

I never get where the whole McDonogh/Gilman being "jealous" about the Turkey Bowl comes from.

1. We don't want to play on Thanksgiving
2. We don't want to play the most important game of our season at 10 am
3. We prefer on campus venues to a neutral site, especially when an over capacity John McDonogh stadium looks better than a 10% full M&T Bank
4. We could rent M&T if we wanted to, and we will for the 100th McDonogh-Gilman game because the crowd will be too big for on campus venues
5. Being on TV isn't prestigious when:
a. there's not much competition for that prime 10-12:30 slot on Thanksgiving morning
b. you have to pay the TV station for broadcast costs, if McD or Gilman wanted the game on TV so bad, there are literally 1,000s of people involved with each school who could pay the $8,000 to cover a TV broadcast