Your probably right. It could be the constant negative coments and how you guys down play the significance of the Turkey Bowl that confuses people.
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Your probably right. It could be the constant negative coments and how you guys down play the significance of the Turkey Bowl that confuses people.
Member
Significance of the Turkey Bowl? Significant to who? It's means nothing to nobody outside of the two schools. The only reason why outside schools even care about the game is because of the fact that its holding back the progress of the league.Originally Posted by Hallman
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If the opponents are inferior and CHC and Loyola are holding back the league than LEAVE. Why is Gilman staying? Play and independent schedule. It is that simple.
Member
No, Loyola and CHC should leave and have their Turkey Bowl. You don't like progress, no need to be in any conference. No National Caliber team plays without being in a conference. Ask ECA how playing an independent schedule works.
Member
I ssay good for the MIAA. In Florida they have Saint Thomas and they are playing for a State Championship. Now we may get the MIAA to actually have their winners play in a State format. Regions & District first than the Semi Finals and finally the States if they can make it that far and I think they will. I think the teams in the MIAA will be split into different school Districts and by size may even be represented in just about all Championship levels. This could be bad for the Public Schools until they all find a way to legally recruit their players.
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Not having a playoff is just ridiculous. TX is playing their championship games tonight and Ohio, FL, and Cal wrapped up last weekend. But here in the land of the MIAA we can't have a playoff because of a turkey bowl game and school's that do not want to play past the third week of Nov. Sad.......
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In Cal, OH, FL, and PA the publics and play each other for the state playoffs. I would either have all the private schools compete in 4A or have a cut say 500 kids and below in 3A. But no private school should be playing any public school under 3A.
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There are 42,000+ in attendance for Katy vs. Cedar Hill.
Not bad for a high school game.
Member
Not true regarding California where I onced live. It's not a true single elimination championship tournament but rather bowl series championship. That is, a selection committee pick section winners to play in so-called championship games. That's how it was when I was in Cali.
It's so funny that folks every state thinks other states do it better even in places like Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania.
Member
And that's just a warm up for the Allen-Houston Lamar game kicking off at 9. Should add another 10,000+ fans from Allen alone.
If anyone has an upper tier sports package, you can watch the game on Fox College Sports Pacific (Channel 722 on Comcast). The last non All-Star high school game of the season. The Texas announcers are talking about the possibility of adding a plus 1 game so the 2 champs from each classification can meet to decide the overall champion. That would add a 17th game for 10 teams and extend the season close to January.
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I think the resistance of schools to playing past the third week of November was only because it would only have been for conference championships. If the MIAA schools were allowed to participate in a true state tournament, I don't think there would have been much resistance at all. There is no way to have an effective, competitive postseason tournament longer than 2 rounds with the number of private schools in Maryland without integrating with the public schools. There's only something like 37 football-playing private schools in the state (about the same as the number of MPSSAA 1A schools)but we all know that the discrepancy between those schools is much greater than any gap between the worst and best 1A schools. I don't think anyone would want to see a 16-team tournament that had Good Counsel or Gilman playing Bishop Walsh in the first round.
The main problem with adding the private schools would be where to slot them. If you formed a 5A open classification as has been proposed before, with all the private schools and select others in that classification, that would be unfair to the majority of private schools who would never be competitive at that level.
However, if you throw all the privates in the MPSSAA system by enrollment, you will most likely have Gilman and definitely will have McDonogh, Saint Paul's and Saint Frances in 1A. I don't think anyone wants to see private schools win the next 25 1A State Titles either.
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what's not ture they have an open bowl division and publics compete with privates in CIF, correct? And I don't recall were I said the other states do it better. I said if other states can have playoffs were privates and publics play each other then we could.
Member
The privates would have to be in the 3A or 4A. Like I said why a private school would want to play a 2a or 1a team makes no sense. When you're out their hand picking the best players then you need to play in the biggest classifications. The only thing that would really make sense is to bring in the WCAC, but the turkey bowl is blocking that.
Member
That would work the MIAA A, the top 1/2 of the B and WCAC, but what about all the other private schools? There's no reason for Friends and Baltimore Lutheran to be 3A or 4A, especially in football.
If I were to split it up and integrate the 30 football-playing MD private schools into the MPSSAA System, here's how I would do it:
(School, Enrollment as Determined by MPSSAA- grades 9-11, doubled for all male schools, what classification the school would be in strictly by enrollment):
4A (10 Schools)
Calvert Hall- 1,838 (4A)
Mount Saint Joseph- 1,706 (4A)
DeMatha- 1,500 (4A)
Loyola- 1,074 (3A)
Archbishop Spalding- 915 (2A)
Good Counsel- 900 (2A)
Gilman- 687 (2A)
Bishop McNamara- 645 (1A)
McDonogh- 420 (1A)
Saint Frances- 207 (1A)
3A (7 Schools)
Archbishop Curley- 932 (2A)
John Carroll- 621 (1A)
Saint Paul's- 471 (1A)
Boys' Latin- 405 (1A)
Saint Vincent Pallotti- 375 (1A)
Saint Mary's- 369 (1A)
Annapolis Area Christian- 359 (1A)
2A (4 Schools)
Georgetown Prep- 720 (2A)
Saint Mary's Ryken- 503 (1A)
Landon- 495 (1A)
Bullis- 300 (1A)
1A (9 Schools)
Friends- 303 (1A)
Severn- 296 (1A)
Saint James- 258 (1A)
Saint John's Catholic- 228 (1A)
Baltimore Lutheran- 212 (1A)
Riverdale Baptist- 205 (1A)
Mount Carmel- 167 (1A)
Bishop Walsh- 135 (1A)
Avalon- 104 (1A)
All MD WCAC and MIAA A Conference Schools go to 4A, a long run of losing seasons for schools that qualify to move down based on enrollment can apply to move down.
B Conference Schools go to 3A, a long run of dominance and they move up to 4A and a long run of losing seasons and they can move down if enrollment allows.
Both MD IAC Schools go to 2A and MIAA C Conference Schools are sorted by enrollment. All independent schools are handled on a case-by-case basis. IAC, C Conference and independent schools are subject to the same move up/down rules as the B Conference Schools. I don't know what you would do with the home school teams and the various non-private, non-MPSSAA affiliated charter-type schools (MATHS, Silver Oak, MD School for the Deaf, etc...).
This is the best way I could come up with to try to balance the private schools out.
Member
What's not true in California you named is that it is NOT an OPEN elimnation championship tournament. It's a bowl function like the NCAA where a selection committee pick the competitors. Those two selected competitors play in the bowl game and it's called the championship within the various divisions. The fact that it may be a private or public schools in the bowl games is moot. The fact that it's a selection process rather than a single elimination process does not make it a TRUE championship to me. They are bowl games!!
It would be like a committee selecting Wise to play Good Counsel at the end of the regular season to play for the state title with out QO, Gilman, and others having a playoff chance for the title. There are just too many schools in California so it's a northern California versus southern California bowl game.
Member
What is ridiculous is having teams with losing records in the playoffs at all. As far as determining a champion, I can go back to the begining of the MSA and there has been a champion every year even without a playoff. Finally almost every post of yours now mentions how Loyola and CHC are afraid of the big G. News flash, they aren't afraid, they just think they are *******s for the football factory mentality.
Member
I can go back to the 60's when blacks weren't allowed into schools like Gilman, McDonogh and others, should we have kept it that way? NO! It's called PROGRESS! I agree that teams without winning records shouldn't be in playoffs but once the league decided to go the playoff route, it is completely asinine to go back to no playoffs. The issue is and has been the Turkey Bowl! This archaic game has held down the league way too long!
As far as the schools being scared of Gilman, they are definitely scared. They can't compete with them. As far as the football factory, there's many reasons why Gilman is the factory that it is. It's because they have OWNED the MIAA! They have always played the best schedule in the area and the state. They have one of the best academic reputations in the country. Parents WANT their kid to come there. They have a huge endowment and people in the program willing to spend their own money to help kids.
And things are going to get worse. Biff has signed a new contract and the beat keeps going. If you think last years 9th grade class was good, wait until you see next years. I have talked to 4 people that scout and/or coach the youth leagues in Bmore and DC areas and they have gave me a list of the top players and out of the Top 25, Gilman is getting or already have more than a third of them! And in the running for others. CHC isn't doing well and well we know Loyola gave up on their program years ago. I will post the list when I have time.
Last edited by GREYHOUND ALUM; 12-26-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Both teams with losing records actually won their 1st round playoff games as well, and McD went on to play Gilman closer than any other school in the MIAA, leading heading to the 4th Quarter.
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The biggest problem with the MIAA playoffs was the Turkey Bowl. CHC and Loyola refuse to play each other twice so the teams had to be re-seeded so that they didn't play each other. That was completely unfair to the other schools. McDonogh for instance really got hosed and they would have beaten CHC at the end of the year. They were the better team.
Something has to be done, what I don't know. Because this not having a playoffs is just ridiculous.
Member
You are something else. I have never seen a grown man obsess so much over his former high school. Unreal.
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