What is it with the Ravens and quarterbacks?

[OriginalColtsFan]

This is really the only valid point that most Flacco supporters have.

And there's a reason for that. It's because it's really the ONLY valid point that matters. All of your other "theories" (i.e. The team won "in spite of Joe", etc.) are just that -- theories. They're really not even "opinions", because they don't even exist in reality; only in your "theory". So you can spin all the theories and opinions; they don't add up to a hill of beans. Joes WINS, on the other hand, over the course of nearly FIVE YEARS, are real. Very real. And there's nothing you can do to change that reality. Now, you can choose to acknowledge his accomplishments, and appreciate them, or not; that's your business. But don't think for one second that your weak, convoluted theories and opinions change the reality of what Joe's accomplished one iota.

[Captain Spaulding]

And there's a reason for that. It's because it's really the ONLY valid point that matters. All of your other "theories" (i.e. The team won "in spite of Joe", etc.) are just that -- theories. They're really not even "opinions", because they don't even exist in reality; only in your "theory". So you can spin all the theories and opinions; they don't add up to a hill of beans. Joes WINS, on the other hand, over the course of nearly FIVE YEARS, are real. Very real. And there's nothing you can do to change that reality. Now, you can choose to acknowledge his accomplishments, and appreciate them, or not; that's your business. But don't think for one second that your weak, convoluted theories and opinions change the reality of what Joe's accomplished one iota.

Okay, the Brown's drafted Joe instead of Baltimore. Does Joe still have 44 wins after 4 years? He is a winner after all....

I think you forget how many times the Ravens D pulled his arse out of the fire when he was having an off game....

[OriginalColtsFan]

Okay, the Brown's drafted Joe instead of Baltimore. Does Joe still have 44 wins after 4 years? He is a winner after all....

I think you forget how many times the Ravens D pulled his arse out of the fire when he was having an off game....

I didn't forget anything. There were equally as many times that the D gave up huge 4th quarter scoring drives. This isn't the 2000 Ravens D, and hasn't been for quite some time. And again...even WITH with great Ravens D's of the early 2000's...the wins never accumulated because the QB couldn't nail down the position the way Joe has. Either deal with it, or give up; you can't win this one.

[Captain Spaulding]

I didn't forget anything. There were equally as many times that the D gave up huge 4th quarter scoring drives. This isn't the 2000 Ravens D, and hasn't been for quite some time. And again...even WITH with great Ravens D's of the early 2000's...the wins never accumulated because the QB couldn't nail down the position the way Joe has. Either deal with it, or give up; you can't win this one.

Why do you KEEP dodging the Joe to Brown's question?

[OriginalColtsFan]

Why do you KEEP dodging the Joe to Brown's question?

Because it's another irrelevant issue. Joe ISN'T with the Browns. There's no way of knowing HOW that would work out. So it's another irrelevant straw man argument, not worth even addressing. Kind of like...well...you.

[bmore_ken]

Why do you KEEP dodging the Joe to Brown's question?

You know why

[TDL]

Let's see, remember the game in Pittsburgh game where Joe brought them back at the end and hit TJ for a TD? How about last year's AFCC game? They didn't lose because of Joe. And those were road games.

And the regular season game in NE where he drove them down the field at the end and IIRC, Mark Clayton dropped a 4th and 6th in the red zone that would have been a first down?

There are some things Joe needs to get better at, but Joe can play and I'd take him over most QBs in the league.

That's the only issue I have with Joe at this point.Early in his career he made certain mistakes in regards to his field awareness and decision making abilities which everyone assumed that over time and with experience we would gradually see an improvement in those areas.Unfortunately we haven't and he seems to have plateaued.

Is he capable of improving his decision making and avoiding critical errors at vital points in the game? Can he raise the level of play of those around him by being that leader or is he simply an above average QB who is only successful when all other aspects of the Offense are clicking on full cylinder?

When there are no receivers open he needs to be willing to tuck the ball and run as he did early on.He also needs to be conscious of where the team is at in the game in relation to the scoreboard and not do things to jeopardize the lead such as taking a sack deep in their own end and coughing the ball up or trying to force the ball into double coverage instead of throwing it away and punting for field position.

No one has ever questioned his physical abilities and on occasion he has shown flashes of what he's capable of but that's usually interrupted by long stretches where he just simply does not produce.It could be that his brain just doesn't process what's going on around him as quickly as others or that he was hamstrung by Cameron's Offense.We'll find out soon enough, but the justification for signing him to a ridiculous contract on par with the elite QB's in the league simply based on the fact that another team would foolishly fork over the bucks seems weak and misguided.

If Flacco can only be successful with a solid team around him than it is essential that the team maintain the cap space in order to provide that. Otherwise the team is going to be stuck in a position where they have a handful of players consuming the majority of their cap space and the rest of their roster is filled with mediocre cast offs from other teams because that's all that they can afford.

[OriginalColtsFan]

You know why

Another straw man irrelevant poster.

[Captain Spaulding]

Because it's another irrelevant issue. Joe ISN'T with the Browns. There's no way of knowing HOW that would work out. So it's another irrelevant straw man argument, not worth even addressing. Kind of like...well...you.

So, you have no intelligent response, so you need to resort to being immature. Noted.

Have a nice day, and try to remember that not everyone shares your opinion. You should also try growing up a bit....

[tigercruise]

Why do you KEEP dodging the Joe to Brown's question?

OK, Joe goes to the Browns and yes, he still has 44 wins. That answer your question?

[Captain Spaulding]

Another straw man irrelevant poster.

I guess anyone who doesn't share your weak argument is a "straw man irrelevant poster", eh?

The fact of the matter is, plug half of the quarterbacks in the league to the Ravens, and the result will likely be the same, or possibly even better than Joe. This is my opinion, what proof do you have that it's false?

Place "winner" Joe on a lousy team and the team will more than likely remain lousy because if the team sucks, he will make little difference.

Sorry for this wake up call....

[Captain Spaulding]

OK, Joe goes to the Browns and yes, he still has 44 wins. That answer your question?

After maybe 8 years....

[tigercruise]

The fact of the matter is, plug half of the quarterbacks in the league to the Ravens, and the result will likely be the same, or possibly even better than Joe. This is my opinion, what proof do you have that it's false?

Place "winner" Joe on a lousy team and the team will more than likely remain lousy because if the team sucks, he will make little difference.

Sorry for this wake up call....

"The fact of the matter?" You aren't dealing in facts; you're dealing in conjecture. The FACTS are that Joe Flacco has more wins in five years, both season and post-season than any other QB. That is a fact, not conjecture.

[JasonM]

I think a lot of the Ravens' history of QB instability goes back to Billick. He was determined to turn this team's offense into the 1998 Vikings, even though the personnel was never in place in Baltimore and none of the QBs was ever going to be Randall Cunningham (circa '98-99 season).

[OriginalColtsFan]

I think a lot of the Ravens' history of QB instability goes back to Billick. He was determined to turn this team's offense into the 1998 Vikings, even though the personnel was never in place in Baltimore and none of the QBs was ever going to be Randall Cunningham (circa '98-99 season).

And Joe represents the ONLY stability at the QB position that the Ravens have ever had. But they're trying to squeeze Joe and devalue his contributions to the team, despite the fact that the FO painted itself into a corner by overpaying Ngata and Suggs and others, and only has itself to blame for the current situation. Oh well.

[JOHNBOY152]

This is really the only valid point that most Flacco supporters have.

Until this year, Flacco has had the luxury of being on a very good team, with a consistant top 5 defense. How many other QB's in the league can say this? Insert Rivers, Cutler, Shaub, Ryan, and maybe even Smith and Romo, and I'd bet that they'd have just as many, if not more, wins as Joe in that time frame. Insert any of the top 6 (Rodgers, Mannings, Brady, Ben, and Brees) and I'd bet we'd have at least One Superbowl win. Of course this is something that we'll never know.

How many times did the Ravens win over that period where the offense failed to show up? I like Joe, and occasionally he has a very good game, but I still think the Ravens win in spite of him a lot of the time.

I think that the smartest thing the Ravens can do is franchise him (yeah, I know about the cost) and give him another year to see if he can become more consistant. I just think that the Ravens will truly regret giving him a long term contract at this point...

Does this include the front line of either Rodgers, Mannings, Brady, Ben, and Brees? Maybe then another trophy would be in order...other than that, those five elite QB's would be reduced to above average QB's like Flacco.

[jamesdean]

If the Ravens have had any instability with quarterbacks over the years, it's certainly not a novelty. Most teams in the NFL have quarterback issues and most of them are average to lousy. You can say what you want about Flacco's weaknesses and yes, they can be of the "hair-pulling" variety, but he has given the team a very good, winning quarterback since 2008. He's not in the top 5(IMO) but realistically, it could have been much worse. Let's not forget the infamous Tony Banks on the way to the Super Bowl.