"Gun Free Zone" Massacres

[Sergeant Van]

Simply being armed isn't always enough. Armed police officers get shot fairly often.

Also, the Ft Hood shooter was able to do a lot of damage on a military base where I'm sure there was a ton of armed security

Nope. It's a federal offense to carry on a military installation, even for the military personnel stationed there. Only Military Police and civilian and federal law enforcement personnel are allowed to carry, and aside from the two or three MPs running speed traps on post, the only armed guards you'll find are at the gate.

[Grindelwald]

If you want a TRAINED armed guard stationed at schools for protection, I'd be fine with that. If you can find enough, that's a lot of schools. But arming teachers? Ha, ha, ha, ha! The idea is utterly ridiculous. I have a few friends who work as public school teachers, not one of them wants that responsibility put on them like that, even though a lot of them are gun owners themselves. Hell, a high school teenager could easily overpower a teacher. Not to mention, teachers aren't marksmen. I'm not sure too many parents would be comfortable sending their kid to school there. Very dangerous and idiotic idea that could only have spawned from the far right loons.

[veritas]

I don't think teachers should be armed, as I've said before, but armed and trained security personnel is a feasible idea and if it dispels one would-be shooter, it's worth the expense. What I would like to see is for every politician who pushes strong gun control to put a prominent sign in his yard or window stating that his home is a "gun free zone".

[Grindelwald]

I don't think teachers should be armed, as I've said before, but armed and trained security personnel is a feasible idea and if it dispels one would-be shooter, it's worth the expense.

Holy crap I agree with you. Armageddon.

What I would like to see is for every politician who pushes strong gun control to put a prominent sign in his yard or window stating that his home is a "gun free zone".

Except that gun control does not really have any impact on gun free zones. Background checks are gun control. Banning high capacity magazines is gun control. Neither one creates gun free zones. It is a perception of the paranoid gun nutters.

[veritas]

Holy crap I agree with you. Armageddon. Except that gun control does not really have any impact on gun free zones. Background checks are gun control. Banning high capacity magazines is gun control. Neither one creates gun free zones. It is a perception of the paranoid gun nutters.

Thanks for pointing out how "Gun Free Zones" are nothing more than advertisements for where criminals can get easy pickings. Can we ditch the big yellow signs now?

Also, why should law abiding citizens be restricted in their magazine capacity? Does having more than 10 rounds suddenly make one go berserk? Limits on magazine capacity do NOTHING to stop either criminals or mass shootings. It's feel-good nonsense.

[Jeebus]

Banning high capacity magazines is gun control.

(Obviously) you have no clue as to how long it takes to change a magazine, because if you did you would realize that if a gunman (unopposed, remember it's a gun free zone) walks in and fires off 10 rounds, calmly ejects and inserts a new full mag and starts firing again, the entire "change" process takes about 2 seconds.

Bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang.
Press button, Release, Insert.
Bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang.

Repeat at will. Over and over, as many times as he wishes.

No armed person there to stop him in a gun free zone.

That's 20 shots in less than 10 seconds--as opposed to 20 shots fired in around 7 seconds (with no high cap mag ban).

Gun control? lol.

Feel safer?

[Grindelwald]

Thanks for pointing out how "Gun Free Zones" are nothing more than advertisements for where criminals can get easy pickings. Can we ditch the big yellow signs now?

Also, why should law abiding citizens be restricted in their magazine capacity? Does having more than 10 rounds suddenly make one go berserk? Limits on magazine capacity do NOTHING to stop either criminals or mass shootings. It's feel-good nonsense.

The high capacity magazine is gun control, that's all I said. I'm not sure it would have much effect, but it doesn't seem like something that would do any harm either. If the President must have it with his other gun control measures, then so be it.

(Obviously) you have no clue as to how long it takes to change a magazine, because if you did you would realize that if a gunman (unopposed, remember it's a gun free zone) walks in and fires off 10 rounds, calmly ejects and inserts a new full mag and starts firing again, the entire "change" process takes about 2 seconds.

Bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang.
Press button, Release, Insert.
Bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang.

Repeat at will. Over and over, as many times as he wishes.

No armed person there to stop him in a gun free zone.

That's 20 shots in less than 10 seconds--as opposed to 20 shots fired in around 7 seconds (with no high cap mag ban).

Gun control? lol.

Feel safer?

I made no other comment on it other than it was gun control. So I'm not sure what this pathetic rant of yours is about.

[slapshot]

Here's a hypothetical scenario that no teacher - armed, or unarmed - could prevent:

- Perp gains access to the school through some unlocked/unguarded door/window.

- Perp calmly walks (no running in the halls) until he comes to the first classroom. Maybe 20-30 feet, or so.

- Perp opens the classroom door and while approaching the teacher, he calmly asks for directions to some classroom,
department, or whatever? He pretends to be lost, and in need of her assistance.

- Perp, now just a few feet away from the teacher, pulls out his handgun and shoots her dead. One shot to the head. There
is no time for the teacher to react, and pull out her gun (which is carefully locked in her desk...as state law requires).

....having killed the only adult in the room, the perp pushes the desk/chairs in front of the door.

...perp is now free to conduct mass murder, at will, and at his leisure...if he has no intention of trying to escape. Swat team won't arrive for another 5-10 minutes.


Element of surprise. Nothing an armed teacher can do about it. So talk of arming teachers, or putting a security guard at the front door, is nothing more than a pacifier that won't deter, nor stop someone who is truely intent on mass murder, from carrying out his plans.



Here's a thought....maybe all classrooms should be individually LOCKED (although may be against fire regulations to lock the door?)

[Jeebus]

Here's a hypothetical scenario that no teacher - armed, or unarmed - could prevent:

- Perp gains access to the school through some unlocked/unguarded door/window.

- Perp calmly walks (no running in the halls) until he comes to the first classroom. Maybe 20-30 feet, or so.

- Perp opens the classroom door and while approaching the teacher, he calmly asks for directions to some classroom,
department, or whatever? He pretends to be lost, and in need of her assistance.

- Perp, now just a few feet away from the teacher, pulls out his handgun and shoots her dead. One shot to the head. There
is no time for the teacher to react, and pull out her gun (which is carefully locked in her desk...as state law requires).

....having killed the only adult in the room, the perp pushes the desk/chairs in front of the door.

...perp is now free to conduct mass murder, at will, and at his leisure...if he has no intention of trying to escape. Swat team won't arrive for another 5-10 minutes.


Element of surprise. Nothing an armed teacher can do about it. So talk of arming teachers, or putting a security guard at the front door, is nothing more than a pacifier that won't deter, nor stop someone who is truely intent on mass murder, from carrying out his plans.

Correct. And neither will laws that establish magazine limits, ban assault weapons, or enact licensing requirements.

So why pass them?

Here's a thought....maybe all classrooms should be individually LOCKED (although may be against fire regulations to lock the door?)

I've got no issue with that, in fact, all classroom doors can be locked now.

[slapshot]

Correct. And neither will laws that establish magazine limits, ban assault weapons, or enact licensing requirements.

So why pass them?



I've got no issue with that, in fact, all classroom doors can be locked now.

Oddly, we are more or less in agreement. I don't see the need for people to own assault weapons, BUT, I agree that banning them won't elliminate incidents like Newtown, Aurora, Columbine, etc.

Actually, I think having a door on each classroom that has a bar on it, and can be opened from the inside of the classroom, in an emergency, but is locked to the outside is a better solution.

Now, who would pay for all this?

[markh]

The ugly truth is that gun free zones are not about irrational dreams of safety. They are about power and control. The irrational spouting about safety is just a way to get emotional support from those who don’t really think about the issue.