If things get rough, we can Flacco

[NCBirdfan]

If it was a one time thing that would be one thing, but Flacco has been wildly inconsistent since he came into the league, and is a turnover machine.

A turnover machine? I don' think so. Do your research and then come back and tell us how many times he turns the ball over; then tell us how many times other quarterbacks do. Then tell us how they compare.

[Slidemaster]

A turnover machine? I don' think so. Do your research and then come back and tell us how many times he turns the ball over; then tell us how many times other quarterbacks do. Then tell us how they compare.

10 picks, 9 fumbles already, on the back off 11 last year. Compare those stats to Rodgers, Brady, both Mannings, and most other elite QBs. The fumbling in particular is egregious. On top of that, he has an 86 career QBR. His QBR this year is 86.2. What you see is what you get. Satisfied? I'm not.

[CIB]

10 picks, 9 fumbles already, on the back off 11 last year. Compare those stats to Rodgers, Brady, both Mannings, and most other elite QBs. The fumbling in particular is egregious. On top of that, he has an 86 career QBR. His QBR this year is 86.2. What you see is what you get. Satisfied? I'm not.

The whole offense this year has been nothing but inconsistent and that includes the run game where sometimes they seem to block well and Rice gets his holes and then later in the same game the exact same plays result in little or no yardage yet the receivers are still covered because no one was brought up from the D line or secondary to provide more run coverage.
This team -esp. the offensive part this year- has been nothing but weird, and I really can't figure it out.

That being said, putting all the blame on Flacco is ridiculous. He's no more guilty than Cam was. Indeed the reason *I* (can't speak for Colts Fan) supported CC's removal wasn't because he was full of "suck and fail" but because he had clearly peaked as to what he could get out of the offense and indeed the offense seemed to be going backward, just as Flacco was.

I think the one constant the Ravens have had for pretty much all their offenses over the past 11 years since the Superbowl is a poor or pathetic (depending on year) offensive line. One year the line was considered "good" but that was it. The rest of the time it's been decent or good at something (usually run blocking) and bad or worse at the other. Usually one side was well-guarded (Ogden as a prime example) while the other side was filled with questionable journeymen or rookies. Maybe that - and unimaginative play calling which that partly feeds into - has been the real problem with our offense most of these years.

[TDL]

One things for sure if they sign Flacco to that mega deal so many here want them to sign him to the team won't be getting involved in free agency because they won't have any freaking cap space.

Expect more scrubs from other teams to plug in at LB and along the OL.As far as their own FA's, it's doubtful that they'll have the cap space to retain many of them either so along with the holes that already exist may as well prepare for some new ones to pop up.

I'll take Alex Smith and a couple of quality OL as opposed to Flacco and a couple more Bobbie Williams.

[OriginalColtsFan]

One things for sure if they sign Flacco to that mega deal so many here want them to sign him to the team won't be getting involved in free agency because they won't have any freaking cap space.

Expect more scrubs from other teams to plug in at LB and along the OL.As far as their own FA's, it's doubtful that they'll have the cap space to retain many of them either so along with the holes that already exist may as well prepare for some new ones to pop up.

I'll take Alex Smith and a couple of quality OL as opposed to Flacco and a couple more Bobbie Williams.

So what was the excuse BEFORE signing Flacco for having scrubs and holes all over the place?!!!

[TDL]

So what was the excuse BEFORE signing Flacco for having scrubs and holes all over the place?!!!

All the other overpaid vets who were consuming huge chunks of their cap space which left little room to acquire quality FA's.Willis McGahee and Kelly Gregg counted $4.5 million against the cap.The one's still on the roster,Suggs and Ngata $22 million against the cap.Lewis,Reed,Boldin,McKinnie and Birk another $30 million and not even sure what Foxworth and Evans counted against the cap. Seven players accounting for 50 percent of their cap space and another 4 players who aren't even on the team anymore probably counting another another $10 million against the cap.

Seven current players and four former players consuming over $62 million of the $123 million cap. That leaves $61 million to pay the other 46 players on the roster and the practice squad players.

Flacco was slated to earn $8 million for the 2012 season so if they double that for next season that is going to further limit their options as far as upgrading through FA.

[NCBirdfan]

All the other overpaid vets who were consuming huge chunks of their cap space which left little room to acquire quality FA's.Willis McGahee and Kelly Gregg counted $4.5 million against the cap.The one's still on the roster,Suggs and Ngata $22 million against the cap.Lewis,Reed,Boldin,McKinnie and Birk another $30 million and not even sure what Foxworth and Evans counted against the cap. Seven players accounting for 50 percent of their cap space and another 4 players who aren't even on the team anymore probably counting another another $10 million against the cap.

Seven current players and four former players consuming over $62 million of the $123 million cap. That leaves $61 million to pay the other 46 players on the roster and the practice squad players.

Flacco was slated to earn $8 million for the 2012 season so if they double that for next season that is going to further limit their options as far as upgrading through FA.

With the salary cap it is a balance. If teams have top-tier players that demand high salaries, they have to cut corners elsewhere, There is no other way to do it legally within the system.

I don't know Flacco's heart, but it is conceivable he could take a hometown discount so that the Ravens can sign players elsewhere. Then again he could say, with all the negative remarks from fans and media here, that he is damned here no matter what he does and thus will either get what he can here or take his talent elsewhere.

Flacco has his faults, but those who really know football and are not concerned with fantasy numbers understand he is a pretty good quarterback when he gets protection. He also has a very impressive track record and has had some decent come-from-behind victories in his young career.

It is my belief that he is the best hope for the Ravens to get to the Super Bowl. If the Ravens let him walk, he will be a good quarterback for another team, especially if that team's line is solid.

[OriginalColtsFan]

With the salary cap it is a balance. If teams have top-tier players that demand high salaries, they have to cut corners elsewhere, There is no other way to do it legally within the system.

I don't know Flacco's heart, but it is conceivable he could take a hometown discount so that the Ravens can sign players elsewhere. Then again he could say, with all the negative remarks from fans and media here, that he is damned here no matter what he does and thus will either get what he can here or take his talent elsewhere.

Flacco has his faults, but those who really know football and are not concerned with fantasy numbers understand he is a pretty good quarterback when he gets protection. He also has a very impressive track record and has had some decent come-from-behind victories in his young career.

It is my belief that he is the best hope for the Ravens to get to the Super Bowl. If the Ravens let him walk, he will be a good quarterback for another team, especially if that team's line is solid.

The way Flacco was treated, especially re-hiring Cameron when it was CLEAR that it was NOT in Joe's best interest, why SHOULD he offer up any home town discount? Would YOU? The Ravens have NOT built an offense around Joe, yet Joe's taking all the hits on the field, AND in the press. His own damn coaches lie about him "calling audibles" for unpopular OC calls, when looking at the replays it's OBVIOUS that no audibles were called; there wasn't even TIME to call them! So Joe's BEEN taking them for the team, and being quiet about everything. Personally, I think he's more than given his all to this team, and NOT been given anything close back in return. You think he should give them more at this point? I respectfully disagree.

[OriginalColtsFan]

All the other overpaid vets who were consuming huge chunks of their cap space which left little room to acquire quality FA's.Willis McGahee and Kelly Gregg counted $4.5 million against the cap.The one's still on the roster,Suggs and Ngata $22 million against the cap.Lewis,Reed,Boldin,McKinnie and Birk another $30 million and not even sure what Foxworth and Evans counted against the cap. Seven players accounting for 50 percent of their cap space and another 4 players who aren't even on the team anymore probably counting another another $10 million against the cap.

Seven current players and four former players consuming over $62 million of the $123 million cap. That leaves $61 million to pay the other 46 players on the roster and the practice squad players.

Flacco was slated to earn $8 million for the 2012 season so if they double that for next season that is going to further limit their options as far as upgrading through FA.

Oh well. The Ravens made their own problems; Joe didn't.

[NCBirdfan]

The way Flacco was treated, especially re-hiring Cameron when it was CLEAR that it was NOT in Joe's best interest, why SHOULD he offer up any home town discount? Would YOU? The Ravens have NOT built an offense around Joe, yet Joe's talking all the hits on the field, AND in the press. His own damn coaches lie about him "calling audibles" for unpopular OC calls, when looking at the replays it's OBVIOUS that no audibles were called; there wasn't even TIME to call them! So Joe's BEEN taking them for the team, and being quiet about everything. Personally, I think he's more than given his all to this team, and NOT been given anything close back in return. You think he should give them more at this point? I respectfully disagree.

As I previously stated, neither one of us knows Flacco's heart. And because of that, there is nothing to disagree respectfully on the point of his intentions during negotiations. I was merely stating what could happen. I would not blame him for not offering a hometown discount because of things you and I both agree on...but it is still possible. Flacco has a really good demeanor about him and handles things gracefully. That would bode well if the ever becomes a free agent. There would be several teams interested in him for his talent and attitude.

[TDL]

Oh well. The Ravens made their own problems; Joe didn't.

It really doesn't matter who caused the problem.What does matter is that if Flacco's salary increases by $8 million next season that money is coming from somewhere and the cap is expected to remain the same.

Can't have your cake and eat it too so to speak, so no complaining when they can't retain their own quality FA's or bring in any ones from the outside other than the usual discards who can be signed on the cheap.

[OriginalColtsFan]

As I previously stated, neither one of us knows Flacco's heart. And because of that, there is nothing to disagree respectfully on the point of his intentions during negotiations. I was merely stating what could happen. I would not blame him for not offering a hometown discount because of things you and I both agree on...but it is still possible. Flacco has a really good demeanor about him and handles things gracefully. That would bode well if the ever becomes a free agent. There would be several teams interested in him for his talent and attitude.

Okay. N/P. I think it's just a bit naive for anyone to assume that because Joe is mellow and has a great attitude that he's anybody's doormat. I hope his agent is helping him to see the full picture clearly. (And that doesn't necessarily mean to go where the biggest pay check is going to be if the team totally sucks. But in all seriousness...looking at the Ravens down the road...they have SO many holes...and SO little cap space...I'm really not sure the Ravens are in Joe's best interest "moving forward", as the Ravens (and just about everyone else) like to say.)

[Slidemaster]

Okay. N/P. I think it's just a bit naive for anyone to assume that because Joe is mellow and has a great attitude that he's anybody's doormat. I hope his agent is helping him to see the full picture clearly. (And that doesn't necessarily mean to go where the biggest pay check is going to be if the team totally sucks. But in all seriousness...looking at the Ravens down the road...they have SO many holes...and SO little cap space...I'm really not sure the Ravens are in Joe's best interest "moving forward", as the Ravens (and just about everyone else) like to say.)

One can only hope.

[OriginalColtsFan]

One can only hope.

Just be careful what ya hope for, there, chief.

[Slidemaster]

Okay. N/P. I think it's just a bit naive for anyone to assume that because Joe is mellow and has a great attitude that he's anybody's doormat. I hope his agent is helping him to see the full picture clearly. (And that doesn't necessarily mean to go where the biggest pay check is going to be if the team totally sucks. But in all seriousness...looking at the Ravens down the road...they have SO many holes...and SO little cap space...I'm really not sure the Ravens are in Joe's best interest "moving forward", as the Ravens (and just about everyone else) like to say.)

Just be careful what ya hope for, there, chief.

Do you think Flacco is elite? Do you think he deserves to be paid like he is?

You can get away with spending 18 million a year on a QB when he's good enough to make up for the corners you have to cut in the cap room to keep him.

Does Joe allow for a less than stellar defense? Nope.

Less than stellar O-line? Nope.

Less than stellar receivers? Nope.

Less than stellar running game? Nope.

So if he needs a strong run game, O-line, defense, and run game to succeed, why is he getting paid like he's Tom Brady? A LOT of QBs can succeed if they are decent and are surrounded by strong pieces. Hell, Mark friggin Sanchez did it, and he is actually terrible.

Pay Joe that money, and the team fails (as in doesn't win a SB) for the duration.

[Ravens2006]

While the usual suspects focus on the last three games as if Joe's ENTIRE career started in week 13...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ootball/19786/

Fascinating, 'aint it? The last three weeks, he's turned the ball over too much, and it wasn't all his OL / WRs fault. But if you can manage to remember the last 4+ years too, you'd realize Joe isn't a chronically turnover prone QB by any stretch of the imagination... and when the Ravens offense isn't turning the ball over, they're winning. Even ugly. Or you can just run with the idea that Joe of week 13 through 15 is all he's ever been and all he'll ever be.

[NCBirdfan]

Do you think Flacco is elite? Do you think he deserves to be paid like he is?

You can get away with spending 18 million a year on a QB when he's good enough to make up for the corners you have to cut in the cap room to keep him.

Does Joe allow for a less than stellar defense? Nope.

Less than stellar O-line? Nope.

Less than stellar receivers? Nope.

Less than stellar running game? Nope.

So if he needs a strong run game, O-line, defense, and run game to succeed, why is he getting paid like he's Tom Brady? A LOT of QBs can succeed if they are decent and are surrounded by strong pieces. Hell, Mark friggin Sanchez did it, and he is actually terrible.

Pay Joe that money, and the team fails (as in doesn't win a SB) for the duration.

Does any quarterback?

Games are won by teams, not individual players. A quarterback is just one player. In a sense I agree with you. Spending 18 million on one player hurts the team as it has to pay a lot less for other players/positions when filling out the rosters. I do not agree with the rest of what you are saying because it is not true. You are either ignorant or trying to stir things up.

And Mark Sanchez succeeded? I missed those Super Bowls. Heck, they didn't even make the playoffs the past two seasons. Now I know you are just trying to stir things up. No rational person would make that statement with a straight face.

[NCBirdfan]

While the usual suspects focus on the last three games as if Joe's ENTIRE career started in week 13...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ootball/19786/

Fascinating, 'aint it? The last three weeks, he's turned the ball over too much, and it wasn't all his OL / WRs fault. But if you can manage to remember the last 4+ years too, you'd realize Joe isn't a chronically turnover prone QB by any stretch of the imagination... and when the Ravens offense isn't turning the ball over, they're winning. Even ugly. Or you can just run with the idea that Joe of week 13 through 15 is all he's ever been and all he'll ever be.

Great work. Clearly your link should end the conversation that Joe Flacco is a turnover machine. But I'm guessing it won't.

[OriginalColtsFan]

While the usual suspects focus on the last three games as if Joe's ENTIRE career started in week 13...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ootball/19786/

Fascinating, 'aint it? The last three weeks, he's turned the ball over too much, and it wasn't all his OL / WRs fault. But if you can manage to remember the last 4+ years too, you'd realize Joe isn't a chronically turnover prone QB by any stretch of the imagination... and when the Ravens offense isn't turning the ball over, they're winning. Even ugly. Or you can just run with the idea that Joe of week 13 through 15 is all he's ever been and all he'll ever be.

Good job. +1

[Slidemaster]

While the usual suspects focus on the last three games as if Joe's ENTIRE career started in week 13...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ootball/19786/

Fascinating, 'aint it? The last three weeks, he's turned the ball over too much, and it wasn't all his OL / WRs fault. But if you can manage to remember the last 4+ years too, you'd realize Joe isn't a chronically turnover prone QB by any stretch of the imagination... and when the Ravens offense isn't turning the ball over, they're winning. Even ugly. Or you can just run with the idea that Joe of week 13 through 15 is all he's ever been and all he'll ever be.

I don't care what happened 3 or 4 years ago. Look at his turnover rate the last 2 years.