Should the Ravens fire Harbaugh at the end of the season?

[Flu]

I'd fire him. I'm not sure he's a strong leader. According to Preston, Cam was fired after Haraugh told Biscotti about an argument he and Cam had where Cam was insubordinate. Haraugh should have fired Cam himself on the spot if he had the power, or if not, demanded Biscootti fire him if he wanted Harbaugh to remain as coach. It sounds like he just went whining to Biscotti about it.

That's a real credible source!

Preston is Baltimore's version of Skip Bayless! He will say anything to create a little controversy and sell some papers.

[OriginalColtsFan]

If there's one thing Preston IS good at...
...it's makin stuff up.

[OriginalColtsFan]

The real foundation question here is this: Has John Harbaugh lost control of this team? He clearly had lost control of Cameron. Cameron was fired due to insubordination. So...the next question is: Has Harbaugh lost the locker room? Do the players still draw inspiration from his rah rah messages? Are they willing to really fight in the trenches for him?

I think a case COULD be made that he has, in fact, lost the locker room. It'll be interesting to see what happens the rest of 2012, and what, if anything, Bisciotti decides to do in 2013.

[CajunRaven]

So for all of those who want him fired, who are you going to replace him with?

[NCBirdfan]

So for all of those who want him fired, who are you going to replace him with?

Norv Turner or Cam Cameron.

[CajunRaven]

Norv Turner or Cam Cameron.

Or Andy Reid?

[jessup270]

Its hard to argue with the success of the Ravens under Harbaugh.

The Ravens are in the playoffs for the fifth straight year.

Having said that, IMO Harbaugh does not run the team.

Mike Preston's latest article says that Lewis, Reed, Suggs, Boldin and Pollard are strong influences in the locker room.

Young Raven players want the approval of the vets like HOF players like Reed, Suggs and Lewis.

Harbaugh's record is successful in spite of the talents of Coach Harbaugh.

After this season, going forward, you will see Harbaugh as just an average coach, if that.

[PEZ]

Harbaugh should not get fired. The Ravens need to draft better and get better players on the O-line and D-line and we'll be fine. FIVE STRAIGHT PLAYOFF SEASONS!!

[44Defense]

Its hard to argue with the success of the Ravens under Harbaugh.

The Ravens are in the playoffs for the fifth straight year.

Having said that, IMO Harbaugh does not run the team.

Mike Preston's latest article says that Lewis, Reed, Suggs, Boldin and Pollard are strong influences in the locker room.

Young Raven players want the approval of the vets like HOF players like Reed, Suggs and Lewis.

Harbaugh's record is successful in spite of the talents of Coach Harbaugh.

After this season, going forward, you will see Harbaugh as just an average coach, if that.

Harbaugh lost all his authority in the lockerroom when Biscotti stuck his nose into the team when firing Cam. IMO Biscotti is too close to the players and needs to allow Ozzie and Harbaugh to do their jobs.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Harbaugh lost all his authority in the lockerroom when Biscotti stuck his nose into the team when firing Cam. IMO Biscotti is too close to the players and needs to allow Ozzie and Harbaugh to do their jobs.

Hmmmmm...since Bisciotti took over the team, how many times has he intervened, exactly.

[PEZ]

IMO Biscotti is too close to the players and needs to allow Ozzie and Harbaugh to do their jobs.

It's just amazing the stuff people come up with

[44Defense]

Hmmmmm...since Bisciotti took over the team, how many times has he intervened, exactly.

My point is Biscotti should stick to signing checks and watching the games from his suite. IMO he decided to fire Cam without thinking things through only due to a frustrational loss. Harbs has been in the playoffs every year and now appears on the hot seat because of the owner. THis has happened before with Billick IMO

[AVATAR]

If Biscotti fired Cam then he must know that Harbaugh doesn't control the team and has lost it. CEO's don't get involved in management decisions that a manger should be able to make otherwise. That's what the pay them for, or so I've been lead to believe. Ozzie should have been involved directly as well which also speaks volumes.

This franchise appears to be in protect mode from top to bottom.

[can you hear me now!]

The real foundation question here is this: Has John Harbaugh lost control of this team? He clearly had lost control of Cameron. Cameron was fired due to insubordination. So...the next question is: Has Harbaugh lost the locker room? Do the players still draw inspiration from his rah rah messages? Are they willing to really fight in the trenches for him?

I think a case COULD be made that he has, in fact, lost the locker room. It'll be interesting to see what happens the rest of 2012, and what, if anything, Bisciotti decides to do in 2013.

I think Harbaugh has control...the players haven't been yapping about a lot of thinks and if they were Mikey would be there to blow them out of proportion....

what makes you think he's lost control? Cameron? Coordinators are hired and fired in the middle of the season...it's happened here before...had cameron been allowed to get away with his insubordination, then you might have something to back your case...clearing the firing with the owner makes sense as the owner is paying the coordinators, not Harbaugh....people act like this is a large corporation..it's not....10 coaches, 60 players and a doxen of so support staff...anyone who thinks Biscotti ought not to be involved is kidding themselves...every owner is involved in those decisions....

Want to fire Harbaugh because McKinnie is not playing? Seems like a solid decision based on McKinnie's inability to keep his weight down and do little more than go through the motions (let's face it..he is esentially working for free since his paycheck is going to pay his debts...he's in the "why bother mode').


Want to fire Harbaugh because the team is decimated by injuries? That would make sense, he's working them too hard during the week and they have nothing left on Sunday...you know better than that....I think he's done a pretty good job of holding things together considering what has happened on the defensive side of the ball...4 starters from opening day remain on the field....

What to fire Harbaugh because the O/L sucks? Oher seems to have taken a step back, Reid is getting his first meaningful playing time, Birk is out of gas, Yanda is hurt, Williams is almost a zero, Osemele is a rookie...they have no blocking tight end with Dickson out....

I know you want him fired, but after this year, where things could have gone south earlier, why? take a look around the league and find a coach who could have done better under the circumstances....there aren't any...the closest you might find is Tomlin...

they make the playoffs for the 5th year in a row and frankly, given the injuries and weaknesses, they shouldn't be there, but Harbaugh has them there...If this were a 14 win team playing way below it's potential...then there is an issue. He's not the GM, he doesn't run the draft and he certainly doesn't draw up contracts....

[AVATAR]

I think Harbaugh has control...the players haven't been yapping about a lot of thinks and if they were Mikey would be there to blow them out of proportion....

what makes you think he's lost control? Cameron? Coordinators are hired and fired in the middle of the season...it's happened here before...had cameron been allowed to get away with his insubordination, then you might have something to back your case...clearing the firing with the owner makes sense as the owner is paying the coordinators, not Harbaugh....people act like this is a large corporation..it's not....10 coaches, 60 players and a doxen of so support staff...anyone who thinks Biscotti ought not to be involved is kidding themselves...every owner is involved in those decisions....

Want to fire Harbaugh because McKinnie is not playing? Seems like a solid decision based on McKinnie's inability to keep his weight down and do little more than go through the motions (let's face it..he is esentially working for free since his paycheck is going to pay his debts...he's in the "why bother mode').


Want to fire Harbaugh because the team is decimated by injuries? That would make sense, he's working them too hard during the week and they have nothing left on Sunday...you know better than that....I think he's done a pretty good job of holding things together considering what has happened on the defensive side of the ball...4 starters from opening day remain on the field....

What to fire Harbaugh because the O/L sucks? Oher seems to have taken a step back, Reid is getting his first meaningful playing time, Birk is out of gas, Yanda is hurt, Williams is almost a zero, Osemele is a rookie...they have no blocking tight end with Dickson out....

I know you want him fired, but after this year, where things could have gone south earlier, why? take a look around the league and find a coach who could have done better under the circumstances....there aren't any...the closest you might find is Tomlin...

they make the playoffs for the 5th year in a row and frankly, given the injuries and weaknesses, they shouldn't be there, but Harbaugh has them there...If this were a 14 win team playing way below it's potential...then there is an issue. He's not the GM, he doesn't run the draft and he certainly doesn't draw up contracts....

You make a lot of sense. One thing I tend to disagree with is you point that Harbaugh has no control in the draft. He has input and if his input has any bearing he should be held accountable along with Ozzie. They don't have a clue how to put together a roster of players that have real all-star potential. The draft seems like a litmus test for hard luck stories or we can't take a chance on the young slightly immature player. Smith being the only recent exception. Some others seemly they have a "look what we did for this poor young man", "Aren't we great as an organization", twist.

Give me a break. The production and skillset never appears to enter the equation.

Lastly, I'd assume that Harbaugh chose most if not all of his assistances. Rossburg, Cam, Pee's and his assistant coaches aren't panning out. If they revamp the entire assistant coaching staff (excluding the trainers). I believe the draft, F/O, and existing players would fair much better then what is currently allowed happen (year after year).

[can you hear me now!]

he has input, that isn't control....there's a big difference between opinion and the final decision phase..you get a say, but no more....

I think the choice of assistants is not strictly the responsibility of the coach...succession planning requires having a viable candidates to assume head coaching duties in the event of an emergency-- see New Orleans and Indianapolis..

no argument there should be some shake up on the staff....Pees is in a no win situation...can't really biatch too much about special teams....caldwell might keep his job...however, I think he won't....linebackers, dbs and OLine is where the changes are needed....

I won't argue Smith was a reach, but that's how calculated risks are executed...he's been injured more than he's been healthy...he's shown flashes of brilliance....

I think Ravens' fans have been spoiled by late round successes in the past and expect Ozzie to pull rabbits out of his hat every year...not realistic.....take a look around the league and see how many 3rd-7th round picks last more than 3 years...not very many...there is also a downside to that success...under the salary cap you can't keep everyone...

[tigercruise]

My point is Biscotti should stick to signing checks and watching the games from his suite. IMO he decided to fire Cam without thinking things through only due to a frustrational loss. Harbs has been in the playoffs every year and now appears on the hot seat because of the owner. THis has happened before with Billick IMO

That's certainly the owners prerogative. It is HIS team. And he most certainly thought it through. Bisciott wanted to fire Cameron a year and a half ago and didn't at the insistence of Harbaugh. Finally, he had enough. No owner just signs checks and watches games without some sort of emotional involvement. They wouldn't be human if they did. Frankly, I don't know how Bisciotti lasted this long watching Cameron. Harbaugh's hanging onto his friend Cam will be his undoing. Harbaugh's days are numbered in Baltimore.

[AVATAR]

he has input, that isn't control....there's a big difference between opinion and the final decision phase..you get a say, but no more....

I think the choice of assistants is not strictly the responsibility of the coach...succession planning requires having a viable candidates to assume head coaching duties in the event of an emergency-- see New Orleans and Indianapolis..

no argument there should be some shake up on the staff....Pees is in a no win situation...can't really biatch too much about special teams....caldwell might keep his job...however, I think he won't....linebackers, dbs and OLine is where the changes are needed....

I won't argue Smith was a reach, but that's how calculated risks are executed...he's been injured more than he's been healthy...he's shown flashes of brilliance....

I think Ravens' fans have been spoiled by late round successes in the past and expect Ozzie to pull rabbits out of his hat every year...not realistic.....take a look around the league and see how many 3rd-7th round picks last more than 3 years...not very many...there is also a downside to that success...under the salary cap you can't keep everyone...

Well trading up to get a college productive prospect and not hoarding picks would be great start. Also,getting cherry picked(jumped over) in the draft seems to a consistent theme as well.
I agree that yoiu can't keep everyone and the front office should be mindful that a subprime aged player with a huge contract hurts for along time.

[44Defense]

Funny thing is this happened in NY last year and a few years back. Team appeared in termoil but ended winning the Super Bowl. If they get the first playoff game at home and get their players back they will be really dangerous. IMO So lets let things play out before we have a lynch mob.

[Fang]

12 said YES? Wow.

Bill Cowher coached the Steelers 13 seasons before he won a Superbowl. In those 13 seasons he coached 17 playoffs games and had 3 losing seasons. I'm going to seriously question Biscotti if he gets rid of Harbaugh.