Gun-free Zones Called "Magnets for Mass Shooters"

[veritas]

Does anyone actually know what an automatic rifle or submachine gun is? Most sportsmen don't have these because they are difficult and extremely expensive to obtain.

The Bushmaster .223 rifle that was used in Conn is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle. If people are going to talk about gun control and what needs to be banned, at least have a basic understanding of what it is that you want to be banned.

Exactly. They have no idea. If it looks scary and can shoot lots of bullets it must be dangerous and need banning. Who can reason with such people?

[veritas]

Oh yeah? Since when is culture directed from the top? Communism tried that. Reagan tried that. You can't turn the clock back. Ever. If a pile of dead children doesn't catch our attention, nothing will. The problem is access. You want more than a shotgun? Join the army.

Good luck collecting those 250-300 million guns. Let us know how that goes.

[zenwalk]

Good luck collecting those 250-300 million guns. Let us know how that goes.

There's always plenty of reasons for doing nothing.

[veritas]

There's always plenty of reasons for doing nothing.

When the "something" you're doing will not accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, it makes little sense to continuing pursuing it. It's not like we haven't passed gun laws by the thousands already. Why will any new ones make a difference? We need better screening and a uniform system to see who is buying guns. That's a more fruitful area to go after.

[soulflower]

We need better screening and a uniform system to see who is buying guns.

We might have a modern system of tracking guns if the Congress can get past the NRA

Why is it that in some states you can buy guns at gun shows without getting a background check?

[zenwalk]

We might have a modern system of tracking guns if the Congress can get past the NRA

And there you have it. It's about money and who's paying what to whom.

[Dryfire]

NRA propaganda,
They called the movie theatre gun free and yet their were 2 concelled carry people there during the shootings.
Schools allow armed security
The NRA will play the lie that the entire country is a gun free zone whenever a masacre happens, yup the US is a gun free zone with 400 million guns in it

The Moral Liberal, News Investors and the Ledger Transcript are NRA propaganda? What are you smoking?

Schools may allow armed security. Notice I put "may". No school is obligated to provide security. Where was the armed security at Sandy Hook????

Provide a link for the two armed citizens at the theater. The movies policy is no guns.

[OldBay]

We might have a modern system of tracking guns if the Congress can get past the NRA

Why is it that in some states you can buy guns at gun shows without getting a background check?

Perhaps you intend this to be a rhetorical question. But if not, then the answer is that most unregulated guns, such as shotguns or hunting rifles, legally owned by private citizens, can be disposed of like any other personal property. The law does not restrict the owner of personal property to sell it only from his home. Most of these private sales at gun shows are to federally licensed dealers. Try going to a gun show to buy a handgun or assault weapon from a private person with no background check. Good luck with that. If someone wanted to buy such a weapon, a gun show, crawling with law enforcement would be the last place to attempt it.

[soulflower]

Most of these private sales at gun shows are to federally licensed dealers.

You haven't heard of the Gunshow Loophole? It allows unlicensed sellers to sell firearms.


A loophole in the law allows individuals not “engaged in the business” of selling firearms to sell guns without a license—and without processing any paperwork. That means that two out of every five guns sold in the United States change hands without a background check.

Though commonly referred to as the “Gun Show Loophole,” the “private sales” described above include guns sold at gun shows, through classified newspaper ads, the Internet, and between individuals virtually anywhere.

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campa...-show-loophole


Many of these laws vary by state with some states having a bigger loophole than others.

In the aftermath of the CT school shooting, some on the right are beginning to suggest ways to close the loophole

Pistol-packing lawmaker suggests tightening “gun show loophole”

http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/...show-loophole/

Try going to a gun show to buy a handgun or assault weapon from a private person with no background check. Good luck with that. If someone wanted to buy such a weapon, a gun show, crawling with law enforcement would be the last place to attempt it.

I think it depends on which state the gunshow is held in. That's the problem. Not every state has the same rules and regulations.

[Dryfire]

Well i guess i cant hang that sign since i have a freaking house full of guns.
They can ban military weapons.
I will keep the guns I have and call me crazy but I
Don't want my kids in a school where teachers and children are armed.
I Don't want a drunk slob armed sitting next to me at a Ravens game
And I certainly don't want the typical fat slob geek NRA type on a flight with me where he's much more likely to accidently shoot a hole threw the floor into the jet fuel tank then he is to shoot a terrorist

How many mass killings have you heard about at Gun Shows?

[OldBay]

The loophole is largely a myth. Private sales of personal property are not limited to the home. Try going to a gun show and doing what you believe commonly occurs and you will see.

I live in MD. I used to travel to Richmond VA, and once attended a gunshow there where a private collector had a Remington 1100 shotgun that interested me. A transaction between us would have been perfectly legal - but he would not sell me the shotgun - legal to sell in any Walmart in any state, because I was from out-of-state and he, like the others there, was erring on the side of extreme safety. Private sales at gunshows are usually people bringing in an old gun and selling it to a federally licensed dealer. Anyone who wants to sell regulated guns privately, could find far less visible places for such legal transactions.

I learned from this lesson that it was a waste of time to attend gun shows out of state because the sellers are afraid to sell to out-of-state buyers, even though the sales are legal.

Rather than continue to spread a myth, attempt to do what you claim can be done.

[pepper]

You haven't heard of the Gunshow Loophole? It allows unlicensed sellers to sell firearms.


A loophole in the law allows individuals not “engaged in the business” of selling firearms to sell guns without a license—and without processing any paperwork. That means that two out of every five guns sold in the United States change hands without a background check.

Though commonly referred to as the “Gun Show Loophole,” the “private sales” described above include guns sold at gun shows, through classified newspaper ads, the Internet, and between individuals virtually anywhere.

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campa...-show-loophole


Many of these laws vary by state with some states having a bigger loophole than others.

In the aftermath of the CT school shooting, some on the right are beginning to suggest ways to close the loophole

Pistol-packing lawmaker suggests tightening “gun show loophole”

http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/...show-loophole/




I think it depends on which state the gunshow is held in. That's the problem. Not every state has the same rules and regulations.

You're right, not every state has those laws...but that should be something the states, not the federal government, decides. (IMO)

Do you know what CT's laws are on that? Did this killer get his guns at a gun show where he wasn't backround checked?

Take the areas where gun violence is a daily constant...do those bad guys use high capacity mages? Do they get their guns at the shows at Howard County fairgrounds or Timonium?

Has any legislation, beyond agressively locking people up, stemmed the violence? I'm talking about relatively small areas consistantly racking up hundreds of gun killings a year, thousands every ten years...

My point is that you could no more stop the young black mens constant killing rampage than you could stop the lone white nut hell-bent on destruction... why is it that this event has Baltimores politicians calling for gun control measures whith an enthusiasm not usually expressed?

Or any liberal Dem politican jumping on the wagon? These types usually avoid at all costs mention of the chronic urban killings...now everyone wants to stand up as a protector of young people. As long as the victims are little white kids, and the suspect is a white guy.

Otherwise, most of the currently outspoken pols are quiet...

[genghiskhanraven]

How many mass killings have you heard about at Gun Shows?

Is fort hood military base a gun free zone? They had a mass killing there.

We both know an insane person could kill a couple dozen people at a gun show

I answered your question again, you called my question "loaded" and wouldnt answer it because you don't want to ever admit the truth that the NRA has at times fought for the profits of the gun industry over the safety of this country's citizens

[pepper]

The loophole is largely a myth. Private sales of personal property are not limited to the home. Try going to a gun show and doing what you believe commonly occurs and you will see.

I live in MD. I used to travel to Richmond VA, and once attended a gunshow there where a private collector had a Remington 1100 shotgun that interested me. A transaction between us would have been perfectly legal - but he would not sell me the shotgun - legal to sell in any Walmart in any state, because I was from out-of-state and he, like the others there, was erring on the side of extreme safety. Private sales at gunshows are usually people bringing in an old gun and selling it to a federally licensed dealer. Anyone who wants to sell regulated guns privately, could find far less visible places for such legal transactions.

I learned from this lesson that it was a waste of time to attend gun shows out of state because the sellers are afraid to sell to out-of-state buyers, even though the sales are legal.

Rather than continue to spread a myth, attempt to do what you claim can be done.

This is true. Gun shows (at least the ones I've been to in Maryland) are staffed by sellers that will not risk anything to sell a gun.

My dad bought an M-4 at Howard County Fairgrounds, and was background checked. There was a couple next to us at the buying table and the guy was denied. He suggested that his wife buy the gun instead, and the sellers (a Bel Air gun shop) laughed that idea off.

At this show, and others I've been to, only licensed dealers participate in gun sales. They are not likely to risk the business on a few hundred dollars.

Does illegal crap happen? Of course, since Humans are involved.

[pepper]

Is fort hood military base a gun free zone? They had a mass killing there.

We both know an insane person could kill a couple dozen people at a gun show

I answered your question again, you called my question "loaded" and wouldnt answer it because you don't want to ever admit the truth that the NRA has at times fought for the profits of the gun industry over the safety of this country's citizens

At Ft Hood, where that shooting took place, folks are typically not armed. Military bases are not entirely like in the GI Joe movies....

As for the NRA looking out for the industry it lobbies for? LOL at your question. No kidding, just as your heros in DC are constantly lobbied, often not with your best interests in mind!

The NRA's concerns are not the safety of the country's citizens, nor should they be. First it's shareholdes and secondly it's supporting the 2nd as an idealogical POV.

[soulflower]

The loophole is largely a myth. Private sales of personal property are not limited to the home. Try going to a gun show and doing what you believe commonly occurs and you will see.

I don't know if it "commonly" occurs however, there's plenty of evidence that it in fact DOES occur. You're either in denial or not well informed:


3 Dealers Caught in Gun Show Sting
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/134576/

Corfu resident among those arrested in statewide sting operation at gun shows
http://thebatavian.com/howard-owens/...un-shows/29348

No background check? No problem. In an eye-opening video, New York City cops reveal how easy it is to buy a gun in Arizona
http://theweek.com/article/index/211...gun-show-sting

Undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...w-stings_N.htm

4 Arrested in Ventura Gun Show Sting
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-...nnual-gun-show

http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting
http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting

[soulflower]

You're right, not every state has those laws...but that should be something the states, not the federal government, decides. (IMO)

States aren't equipped to deal with criminals that cross state lines. The ATF, DOJ, and FBI are better equipped to deal with gun smuggling.

Do you know what CT's laws are on that? Did this killer get his guns at a gun show where he wasn't backround checked?

No. My point is that the bigger problem is illegal gun sales. That's where our attention should be focused. There's little policy-wise that could be done to prevent something like the Newtown tragedy outside of providing more security to schools. I think all public schools should have atleast one armed security guard or police officer.

Take the areas where gun violence is a daily constant...do those bad guys use high capacity mages? Do they get their guns at the shows at Howard County fairgrounds or Timonium?

60% of the illegal guns on the street come from 10 states. Most illegal guns are funneled through legal gun transactions.

[OldBay]

Fully, or semi-automatic. Moot point. Either is quite capable on inflicting massive damage in a short period of time. That's the point.

How many of these kids might have been spared if they had the time to flee, while the perp stopped to reload after 6 (example) shots? If memory serves me, many from the Aurora, massacre said they were spared/fleed while the perp's sem-auto jammed... With regards to body county, it's all about firepower.

This is the kind of careless speech and thought that is leading to the current runs of guns at gun shops all around the country. Think about that for a minute. When uninformed people carelessly start talking about taking away semi-automatic hunting rifles and shotguns because the difference between them and machine guns is "a moot point", you can expect people to rush out and buy those guns "just in case" the uninformed get the gun bans they seek. Their market response is a rational one to a knee-jerk irrational reaction to a horrific tragedy.

Thousands of gun shop owners say "thank you" for creating panic buying.

[pepper]

I don't know if it "commonly" occurs however, there's plenty of evidence that it in fact DOES occur. You're either in denial or not well informed:


3 Dealers Caught in Gun Show Sting
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/134576/

Corfu resident among those arrested in statewide sting operation at gun shows
http://thebatavian.com/howard-owens/...un-shows/29348

No background check? No problem. In an eye-opening video, New York City cops reveal how easy it is to buy a gun in Arizona
http://theweek.com/article/index/211...gun-show-sting

Undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...w-stings_N.htm

4 Arrested in Ventura Gun Show Sting
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-...nnual-gun-show

http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting
http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting

Good links. But most of them not only reveal bad dealers, they also show folks getting busted.

The follow up should be a report on how those crimes were punished. Your links show a problem, and people being arrested for their crimes.

If they're treated like our guys downtown, theres a revolving door for them as well..

Do you have more of a problem with the gun show illegalities or with the constant urban killings? It seems some of our local pols are really upset with Sandy Hook, while seeming to ignore the daily nightmare in their backyards...

Bottom line, prosecute the bad guys to the limit, no matter the race of the victim...

[OldBay]

I don't know if it "commonly" occurs however, there's plenty of evidence that it in fact DOES occur. You're either in denial or not well informed:


3 Dealers Caught in Gun Show Sting
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/134576/

Corfu resident among those arrested in statewide sting operation at gun shows
http://thebatavian.com/howard-owens/...un-shows/29348

No background check? No problem. In an eye-opening video, New York City cops reveal how easy it is to buy a gun in Arizona
http://theweek.com/article/index/211...gun-show-sting

Undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...w-stings_N.htm

4 Arrested in Ventura Gun Show Sting
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-...nnual-gun-show

http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting
http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/...wide-gun-sting

Like any human enterprise in which money is involved, there are some bad apples. I have been to many gun shows and have never seen problems. What is your practical experience?