Arming Teachers? - Why I think It's A Bad Idea

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

I've been read a lot about the idea of arming teachers. Here's why I think this is a bad idea.

Let me preface this, before I go any further.

*I own a few semi-automatic AR15 type rifles. I also own several magazines that would be called high capacity. I don't want to see either banned.

*I also believe that any citizen of this country who has not had his or her individual rights curtailed by serious criminal activity or documented mental instability, should be allowed to own firearms.

To effectively carry a gun well enough to actually provide a benefit to security, you have to take it extremely serious, practice regularly, invest in good equipment like retention security holsters and more practice. Not to mention specific clothing to conceal it in certain cases.

The average, run of the mill teacher should not be armed and realistically doesn't want to be.

In today's schools, particularly Jr. high and high school, the teachers and students are at risk from other students more so than any other threat. It's true, simply read the newspaper. Do we really want a gun on someone whom, a student in a rage, could take away from in a crowded classroom? And I'm thinking of 110 LB woman fighting a 200 LB boy.

Every school should have police presence.

In Tennessee every school has a uniformed SRO (Student Resource Officer) member of either the local sheriffs office or police department. These are regular police personnel with a standard police loadout. Typically a 16 shot 9MM pistol with usually up to 4 spare magazines in a retentive security, snatch resistant holster. They are well armed. But even more importantly they have a belt radio. They don't have to win a fight against a person or even a group of people bent on killing on entry to the building, all they have to do is hold them off long enough for help to arrive. One code word shouted over an open frequency and help is on the way.



One SRO is not enough. A minimum of two is required, dependent on size. I also believe there should be at least one in the elementary school. There is another benefit to this. At that young age, introduce kids to cops more than just one day a year at career day. If they see “Miss Joanne” or “Mr. Ralph” every day and develop a good relationship with them, don’t you think that would pay a dividend when they get to the age where kids rebel against authority, (let’s face it, we all do to some degree or another, oh yeah? How many of you have a radar detector in your car?) Lets get them off to a good start where they see LEOs as a friend instead of just an authority figure.

Hardening building security. As with many schools, the school in Connecticut had an up-to-date CCTV security system with locking doors installed. After identification they remotely unlock the door and let people in. And this assembly was made of framed glass plate, which the guy had no trouble smashing. We have got to harden the buildings against unauthorized forced entry.

Now, there may be a few teachers who want be armed. Fine. Great. Give them appropriate training in weapons and weapon retention. Only a few really motivated people will be willing to do this.

Finally, how do we pay for this?

Well, the U.S. just gave 20 late model F-16 fighters to Egypt as part of a 1 Billion dollar aid package. A nation now run by the Muslim Brotherhood, people who danced in the streets when other mass murders crashed planes full of our people into buildings full of our people. And we do this for other similar nations.

Security, like charity, begins at home.

[MithrilKnight]

don't you feel at all conflicted that you even NEED to justify yourself before giving your opinion?

I don't do drugs, but have legitimate opinions on recreational drug use.
I don't have children, but have legitimate opinions on education and child safety.
I don't have guns, but have legitimate opinions on gun availability.

It's a shame that people on the Right, who have concerns about gun safety, feel they have to list all the weapons they have to legitimize themselves...


But to your comments, just like gasoline taxes help pay for roadways, I say pay for additional security measures by excise taxing gun and ammo sales. Simple. There was a comedian that made a joke about it, but it's true - as an exaggeration, if every bullet cost you $100 - a LOT less shooting would be going on...

[soulflower]

Instead of arming teachers, why not just pay for armed security guards or police officers? Most inner-city public schools have armed security or on-site police officers.

Teachers have enough responsibilities. Let professionals or law enforcement focus on school security.

[veritas]

Arming teachers is absurd. I can just see Miss Pretty teaching her first graders with a Glock 19 on her hip. And, no doubt, Miss Pretty is well schooled in handling this weapon and could take down a nut on a rampage. This is one idea where my side has it wrong. Better security in schools, fine. Armed professional security guards, fine. Arming Miss Pretty? Uh, no.

[MithrilKnight]

... Do we really want a gun on someone whom, a student in a rage, could take away from?

...

Good question.

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, after asking some guys in a car to turn down their music, shoots up the car in fear he might be attacked?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, while patrolling their neighborhood, chases down a pedestrian and confronts him and finally shoots him in fear he might be attacked back?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, in a drunken rage, grabs it from under the bed and shoots his wife?

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

[Jeebus]

Most inner-city public schools have armed security or on-site police officers.

Why would they need them in the inner city and not out in the country?

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

don't you feel at all conflicted that you even NEED to justify yourself before giving your opinion?

I don't do drugs, but have legitimate opinions on recreational drug use.
I don't have children, but have legitimate opinions on education and child safety.
I don't have guns, but have legitimate opinions on gun availability.

It's a shame that people on the Right, who have concerns about gun safety, feel they have to list all the weapons they have to legitimize themselves...


But to your comments, just like gasoline taxes help pay for roadways, I say pay for additional security measures by excise taxing gun and ammo sales. Simple. There was a comedian that made a joke about it, but it's true - as an exaggeration, if every bullet cost you $100 - a LOT less shooting would be going on...

I'm not rationalizing or justifying my position. I simply want people on my side of the aisle to understand that not everybody wants to carry a gun.

Maybe by admitting that I have beau coup ARs, 30 rnd magazines and a CCW permit maybe people will read before thinking I'm a frothing at the mouth anti-gun hack.

[ivanbalt]

Good question.

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, after asking some guys in a car to turn down their music, shoots up the car in fear he might be attacked?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, while patrolling their neighborhood, chases down a pedestrian and confronts him and finally shoots him in fear he might be attacked back?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, in a drunken rage, grabs it from under the bed and shoots his wife?

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Please provide your plan for banning all gun ownership. This includes confiscation of all weapons, ending manufacturing, policing, and ongoing gun ownership prevention policy. Also include sources of funding for this operation, expanded prisons for offenders and plans for all of the employed.

If you can't provide this, you're basically saying "I wish there was world peace".

[gonzoliberal]

I thought this was an Onion thread at first glance.

'Pretty stupid idea.

Armed professional security?

If it comes to that, then professional cops would be much preferable to arming all the teachers.

That being said, I think there should be some room in the discussion to deal with trained ccw holders, with an emphasis on "trained", among the school's staff.

Let teachers do what they do best; teach and care for.

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

Good question.

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, after asking some guys in a car to turn down their music, shoots up the car in fear he might be attacked?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, while patrolling their neighborhood, chases down a pedestrian and confronts him and finally shoots him in fear he might be attacked back?

Do we really want a gun on someone whom, in a drunken rage, grabs it from under the bed and shoots his wife?

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

No, unfortunately you're not getting the picture. When you legally carry a firearm, you avoid places where might be forced to use your gun. You don't go in bars, beer joints, strip clubs and such. You avoid areas of town where crime is rampant if possible. You don't put yourself in that position if possible.
You can avoid crowded areas. A teacher has no choice but to be in a crowded environment. It's part of the reason I don't go to large crowded theaters.

Everybody you listed is an idiot. They are going to do this stuff regardless. That's why they're idiots. They will do it whether they got a permit or not.
The only way to prevent it is to make guns magically disappear. So how are you going to do that? Make possession illegal now? Death penalty for people caught with one? Summery execution for possession. Short of that nobody, including me, would comply.

The purpose of this thread was to show that schools need real effective security onsite. The demands are much more different than a single person defending himself or his family.

I won't be drawn into a pissing contest with you on the direction of this post. Besides, I was taught not to take advantage of people and you are urinating into the wind.

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

I thought this was an Onion thread at first glance.

'Pretty stupid idea.

Armed professional security?

If it comes to that, then professional cops would be much preferable to arming all the teachers.

That being said, I think there should be some room in the discussion to deal with trained ccw holders, with an emphasis on "trained", among the school's staff.

Let teachers do what they do best; teach and care for.

Did I write this in gibberish? Seriously, did anybody actually read it? Did you just read the Title bar?

My point was that it should be real cops, which is what SROs are.
And that armed security professionals are only a component of security, along with making the building more secure physically.

[gonzoliberal]

Did I write this in gibberish?

My point was that it should be real cops, which is what SROs are.
And that armed security professionals are only a component of security, along with making the building more secure physically.

No, you did not.

Your piece was perfectly clear.

...and I agree, which I'd hoped to express.

The meme of arming teachers has been in and out of the cable news all morning. Alarmingly, some take the idea seriously.

Some will probably show up here by and by...

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

No, you did not.

Your piece was perfectly clear.

...and I agree, which I'd hoped to express.

The meme of arming teachers has been in and out of the cable news all morning. Alarmingly, some take the idea seriously.

Some will probably show up here by and by...

Maybe I just misunderstood the first couple of lines.

[Gopher]

We don't have to require those that are unqualified or reluctant to provide that service since there is no shortage of qualified individuals in any community capable of doing that particular job. It just takes the will to stop making excuses, identify those individuals and put them in place where they need to be.

[MithrilKnight]

No, unfortunately you're not getting the picture.
Everybody listed is an idiot. They are going to do this stuff regardless. That's why they're idiots. They will do it whether they got a permit or not.
The only way to prevent it is to make guns magically disappear. So how are you going to do that? Make possession illegal now? Death penalty for people caught with one? Summery execution for possession. Short of that nobody, including me, would comply.

The purpose of this thread was to show that schools need real effective security onsite. The demands are much more different than a single person defending himself or his family.

I won't be drawn into a pissing contest with you on the direction of this post. Besides, I was taught not to take advantage of people and you are urinating into the wind.

Actually, I'm in effect agreeing with you. But I'm pointing out, drawing the line at teachers because a student "might" be irrational, is as meaningful as saying all the others I posted.

No one can know when or if or how or who will have a gun or access to a gun when they're mentality is compromised.
How many teachers, fully trained, might pull their gun out to quiet the class for fear of losing control? Probably as many as would lose their weapon to a hulking, enraged student.

Giving teachers guns is dumb.

So are "stand your ground" laws that let random individuals be the arbiter of life and death during a provoked street altercation.

So is allowing random individuals to own rapid fire, high powered "person hunting" weapons.

I have no problem with citizens owning a "person hunting" weapon, so long as they become licensed, finger printed, and conduct training with their home State every 2-years or so.

The 2nd Amendment isn't a blanket, any more than the 1st.

[Wild Eyed Southern Boy]

I have no problem with citizens owning a "person hunting" weapon, so long as they become licensed, finger printed, and conduct training with their home State every 2-years or so.

I have to renew my CCW every 4 years. My only fear of what you list is the scenario of where somebody who hates gun, makes a test impossible to pass.

Kind of like the Steve Martin DUI test in one of his movies. I can see Michael Bloomberg doing that, can't you?