Flacco expresses confidence that deal will get done

[ivanbalt]

Sanchez sucks, why do you want him here instead of Flacco?

Had to be sarcasm.

[bmore_ken]

It's so hard to tell sometimes without the icon

[OriginalColtsFan]

It's so hard to tell sometimes without the icon

LOL. Definitely sarcasm. NC has been in Joe's corner and has been trying to figure out why some posters are talking about bringing in QBs who aren't even at Joe's level.

[jessup270]

Wow...

In all seriousness... he's been in the league 5 years now. He's been the QB for a team that has made 5 straight playoff appearances. He's never missed a game. Overall, if we can possibly see the big picture, he's been a "plus" player at the position who has protected the ball well (current 3 game stretch aside). He's never said or done anything on or off the field that caused the organization any consternation. He's led an offense that was maybe a dumb personal foul away from a SB appearance ('08), maybe a dropped TD pass away from another AFC title game ('10), and definitely a dropped TD pass away from a SB appearance ('11). He's not Brady or Manning. But you know what... the next round of Brady / Manning contracts will exceed Brees' standard setting deal. Joe's probably not going to get there, but he will certainly get a very, very nice deal from someone... by any possible standard.

I get the new-found desire to forget all his accomplishments... but in reality, there's no way to justify nor even think that he's not going to get a "lucrative deal" from SOMEONE. 27 / 28 years old with all he's done. The fact that he's not one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league doesn't mean he's not going to be very well compensated.

Everything you said makes perfect sense.

The problem the Ravens have is cap space.

They paid BIG cap money to Ngata, Rice, R. Lewis and E. Reed and several other current players.

The Ravens have to pay 42 players, they can't tie up a major chunk of their cap space on a handful of players.

The NFL expert in keeping the salary cap under control is Bellichek. He seems to have an uncanny knack to know when to release veteran players who are no longer productive.

[ivanbalt]

The NFL expert in keeping the salary cap under control is Bellichek. He seems to have an uncanny knack to know when to release veteran players who are no longer productive.

The Patriots team philosophy is basically Tom Brady and some other guys. And it works for them since Brady is one of the best ever, plus they never have to worry about competition in the division.

[OriginalColtsFan]

The Patriots team philosophy is basically Tom Brady and some other guys. And it works for them since Brady is one of the best ever, plus they never have to worry about competition in the division.

It's also somewhat similar in Pittsburgh. They pay Ben a lot, and some other players, but they don't hold onto high priced players like Joey Porter, etc. They let them go and replace them. The Ravens...not so much. Ozzie seems to love to pay his "blue chip" players a ton of money, and that totally skews the cap. But as I've posted already -- that's not Joe's fault. If they want to try to get him on the cheap, I don't think it's going to -- nor SHOULD it -- work. They can tag him next year, but after that, either they pay the going rate, or they can get somebody else.

[bmore_ken]

plus they never have to worry about competition in the division.

You beat me to that one. To be honest though in Jessup's defense, Ray's 2013 cap number is going to be $7.3M next season

I believe Ed's cap number this year is $10M Are we getting value for that kind of money from either of them at this point?

[bmore_ken]

While we're at it, Boldin is scheduled for a $6M cap number next year. Might be time to see what Laquon Williams and Tandon Doss can do

[ivanbalt]

You beat me to that one. To be honest though in Jessup's defense, Ray's 2013 cap number is going to be $7.3M next season

I believe Ed's cap number this year is $10M Are we getting value for that kind of money from either of them at this point?

No way. It's time for Ray to hang it up. And Ed Reed should have been gone after last season.

[OriginalColtsFan]

While we're at it, Boldin is scheduled for a $6M cap number next year. Might be time to see what Laquon Williams and Tandon Doss can do

And toss in Leach as well. Go back to the vet min blocking FB and give up the ghost on "THE ALL PRO FB VONTE LEACH". How much has NOT having Leach cost the Texans in terms of their running game? NADA! Or do what the rest of the NFL is doing -- learn how to scheme with your O-line and get results that way.

[Purplepea]

if you think about flacco's great games they are few and far between.He had one of the best defenses to back him up, while learning to QB for the ravens.He's not what he could be and not as bad as we ve had in the past . he's no manning either of them. But he's no K Boiler , even though some fumbles and interceptions and very painful and at the worst time.He needs to concentrate more and his joe cool is his lack of foucus in the game . Peyton should be a tool for flacco's improvement . the awareness in the game would bust a blood vessel in his brain. but Joel's going into overtime he just blind his eye's look up with a Jeff and drag's his butt on the field like he we go .Take up karate joe wax on wax off

[OriginalColtsFan]

if you think about flacco's great games they are few and far between.He had one of the best defenses to back him up, while learning to QB for the ravens.He's not what he could be and not as bad as we ve had in the past . he's no manning either of them. But he's no K Boiler , even though some fumbles and interceptions and very painful and at the worst time.He needs to concentrate more and his joe cool is his lack of foucus in the game . Peyton should be a tool for flacco's improvement . the awareness in the game would bust a blood vessel in his brain. but Joel's going into overtime he just blind his eye's look up with a Jeff and drag's his butt on the field like he we go .Take up karate joe wax on wax off

Wow. Is school out or something?

(Looks like we're never at a loss for new, really dazzling posters.)

[tacker]

Wow...

In all seriousness... he's been in the league 5 years now. He's been the QB for a team that has made 5 straight playoff appearances. He's never missed a game. Overall, if we can possibly see the big picture, he's been a "plus" player at the position who has protected the ball well (current 3 game stretch aside). He's never said or done anything on or off the field that caused the organization any consternation. He's led an offense that was maybe a dumb personal foul away from a SB appearance ('08), maybe a dropped TD pass away from another AFC title game ('10), and definitely a dropped TD pass away from a SB appearance ('11). He's not Brady or Manning. But you know what... the next round of Brady / Manning contracts will exceed Brees' standard setting deal. Joe's probably not going to get there, but he will certainly get a very, very nice deal from someone... by any possible standard.

I get the new-found desire to forget all his accomplishments... but in reality, there's no way to justify nor even think that he's not going to get a "lucrative deal" from SOMEONE. 27 / 28 years old with all he's done. The fact that he's not one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league doesn't mean he's not going to be very well compensated.

You're 100% right. Let that SOMEONE be someone else.

See, the difference between a Flacco and a Brady or a Brees (or the Mannings) is that they didn't ALMOST make it to a Super Bowl. They took their teams there and won it. (In Brady's and Eli's case, multiple times.) We don't need to do a mega-deal with Flacco for almost being good.

[cprenegade]

Everything you said makes perfect sense.

The problem the Ravens have is cap space.

They paid BIG cap money to Ngata, Rice, R. Lewis and E. Reed and several other current players.

The Ravens have to pay 42 players, they can't tie up a major chunk of their cap space on a handful of players.

The NFL expert in keeping the salary cap under control is Bellichek. He seems to have an uncanny knack to know when to release veteran players who are no longer productive.

It's also somewhat similar in Pittsburgh. They pay Ben a lot, and some other players, but they don't hold onto high priced players like Joey Porter, etc. They let them go and replace them. The Ravens...not so much. Ozzie seems to love to pay his "blue chip" players a ton of money, and that totally skews the cap. But as I've posted already -- that's not Joe's fault. If they want to try to get him on the cheap, I don't think it's going to -- nor SHOULD it -- work. They can tag him next year, but after that, either they pay the going rate, or they can get somebody else.

That is the key to success in the football, both in the NFL and college. Build a system and fit players into the system. You can achieve temporary success by building your system around the talent, but long term success is usually only achieved by building a system and teaching your players to play to that system. Belicheck has done that masterfully. The only constant is Tom Brady. Look at New England's running game. Year after year nobody knows who any of the running backs are, yet their running game is always one of the best in the league. Plug and play. Pittsburgh's defense has been a top 5 defense partly because of the talent, but mainly because it is always Dick Lebau's sheme. At the same time, the Raven's have had 4 defensive coordinators in 4 years. Their offense was building continuity as a power running offense until Cameron decided they should try to be the next version of Air Coreyell. Build the system, believe in the system, and then fit your players to the system. What wins in the NFL is stability, continuity, and good talent scouting to your system. The Raven's have the organization to accomplish this, but they need to decide on an identity and stick with it. Once you do that, you don't need to tie up large sums of money on anyone except maybe your QB. The rest of the pieces can be assembled and fit into the system, usually at a lot less money. One other thing is true: the old adage that games are won and lost in the trenches. With the exception of Pittsburgh's O-line, all of the teams that consistently win have very good O-lines and D-lines. The only reason Pittsburgh has been somewhat successful without an O-line is because they have an unconventional QB that does things under pressure that most can't. The rest of the teams all protect their QB very well, and get after the opposing teams QB.

[Ravens2006]

You're 100% right. Let that SOMEONE be someone else.

See, the difference between a Flacco and a Brady or a Brees (or the Mannings) is that they didn't ALMOST make it to a Super Bowl. They took their teams there and won it. (In Brady's and Eli's case, multiple times.) We don't need to do a mega-deal with Flacco for almost being good.

And how many seasons did Brees and Peyton spend in the NFL before reaching a Superbowl? Elway? Not everybody gets there right away. You still need your teammates to contribute.

[bmorepunk]

You know, there's like 10 sure-fire future Hall of Fame quarterbacks like Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers just waiting to get signed or drafted. The Ravens need to dump that Flacco guy and get one of those Hall of Fame guys.

[bmore_ken]

You're 100% right. Let that SOMEONE be someone else.

See, the difference between a Flacco and a Brady or a Brees (or the Mannings) is that they didn't ALMOST make it to a Super Bowl. They took their teams there and won it. (In Brady's and Eli's case, multiple times.) We don't need to do a mega-deal with Flacco for almost being good.

Yeah that Marino guy really sucked balls. He didn't win a SB either

[Omaha Beach]

You're 100% right. Let that SOMEONE be someone else.

See, the difference between a Flacco and a Brady or a Brees (or the Mannings) is that they didn't ALMOST make it to a Super Bowl. They took their teams there and won it. (In Brady's and Eli's case, multiple times.) We don't need to do a mega-deal with Flacco for almost being good.

Flacco can only throw the ball not catch it too. He put the ball right in Boldin, Hoosh, and Evans hands in the years referred to that would have resulted in at least one and maybe two SB appearances. Look for some dam receivers besides Pitta and usually Boldin who can hold onto a pass.

[Rael]

This debate between the bashers and the supporters is silly in my opinion. I believe the bottom line is Joe is an above average QB who often does well in spite of some offensive challenges that stand in his way. On the other hand, he has too many clunkers to be considered one of the best. This year, by most objective measurements, he has had more bad games than good games. I don't think it is all on him. There has been poor O-line play and poor play-calling, but to say Joe doesn't deserve some blame for some of his poor games is myopic in my opinion. Joe should get a deal but it shouldn't be a Brees type deal. It should be a deal based on what he has done so far which is above average but not great.

[OriginalColtsFan]

This debate between the bashers and the supporters is silly in my opinion. I believe the bottom line is Joe is an above average QB who often does well in spite of some offensive challenges that stand in his way. On the other hand, he has too many clunkers to be considered one of the best. This year, by most objective measurements, he has had more bad games than good games. I don't think it is all on him. There has been poor O-line play and poor play-calling, but to say Joe doesn't deserve some blame for some of his poor games is myopic in my opinion. Joe should get a deal but it shouldn't be a Brees type deal. It should be a deal based on what he has done so far which is above average but not great.

1 I have not read one single post that has even suggested that Joe is "blameless". Not one.
2. Suppose another team is willing to offer Joe more of a "Brees" type deal. What should the Ravens do? Match it, or let him walk?