NRA news conference

[soulflower]

Wrong. The NRA was the first proponent of Project Exile that handed down mandatory sentencing of criminals that used a gun in the commision of a crime. They even helped writing it. The people you pay to convict these criminals are one of your main problems. The first thing to go away in a plea bargain is the gun charge. You want gun laws enforced, talk to the State's Attorney's office and demand that they stop plea bargaining. See where that gets you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

What about the NRA lobbying against tougher penalties for gun dealers who violate the law?

What about the NRA lobbying against a national electronic gun registry?

When it comes to controlling illegal gun trafficking, the NRA is helping criminals not law enforcement...

[soulflower]

Link? Proof?

Example?

The gun lobby certainly isn't helping law encforcement



For decades, the National Rifle Association has lobbied successfully to block all attempts to computerize records of gun sales, arguing against any kind of national registry of firearms ownership. And despite the growth of the gun industry and the nation’s population, ATF has fewer agents today than it did nearly four decades ago: fewer than 2,500.

-----------------

No permanent ATF director has been on the job in the six years since Congress required that the position be confirmed by the Senate. That action allowed the gun lobby to have a say on Capitol Hill about the agency’s leadership, according to ATF officials.

Even Michael J. Sullivan, a former U.S. attorney in Boston nominated by President George W. Bush, could not get confirmed. He was blocked by three senators who accused him of being hostile to gun dealers. One of the senators was a member of the NRA’s board of directors.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...-atf-gun-lobby

[Contumacious]

Your statement would have authority if it wasn't so easy to point to all the countries where gun control has led to a decrease in gun violence.

What was the UK gun related crime before they criminalized guns possession?

.

[Dryfire]

What about the NRA lobbying against tougher penalties for gun dealers who violate the law?

What's wrong with the laws already in place for gun dealers who violate the law? Do we need more than the already 20,000 gun laws and what would one more do?

What about the NRA lobbying against a national electronic gun registry?

There is no need for a national registry. Registration is the first step towards confiscation. It's non of the Federal Government's business if I own a gun or not nor what type. I'm a legal gun owner who has not committed any crimes with or without a firearm and It's none of their friggin business.

When it comes to controlling illegal gun trafficking, the NRA is helping criminals not law enforcement...

Like Fast and Furious? Who has been screaming for the DOJ, Holder and even Barry's staff to come clean with this fiasco? I'll give you a 3 letter hint. The NRA. Don't believe me look at this last years mags from them and you'll see.

[soulflower]

What's wrong with the laws already in place for gun dealers who violate the law? Do we need more than the already 20,000 gun laws and what would one more do?

It's not the laws, it's the ability of law enforcement to track down and prosecute corrupt gun dealers

There is no need for a national registry. Registration is the first step towards confiscation.

So when will the government confiscate your car and your house? Afterall, those things are more closely monitored by the Feds than firearms

Like Fast and Furious? Who has been screaming for the DOJ, Holder and even Barry's staff to come clean with this fiasco? I'll give you a 3 letter hint. The NRA. Don't believe me look at this last years mags from them and you'll see.

The NRA has been protecting corrupt gun dealers long before Fast & Furious

[Dryfire]

It's not the laws, it's the ability of law enforcement to track down and prosecute corrupt gun dealers

What laws are hindering these so called corrupt dealers from getting caught? The ATF can go into any shop with a search warrant and ask for their paperwork, etc. You acting as if there is no trace of the gun leaving the factory. Your clueless of the paperwork that follows that gun from factory to its eventual owner.

So when will the government confiscate your car and your house? Afterall, those things are more closely monitored by the Feds than firearms

The government ain't worried about confiscating my house or car, but they're sure as hell worried about my guns.

The NRA has been protecting corrupt gun dealers long before Fast & Furious

You're talking out of your butt and don't have a clue. All your doing is spouting off talking points of the gun grabbers such as Schumer, O'Malley and half of the fools in the Maryland General Assembly.

Years ago we had a Town Hall meeting with our representatives and state senator. He, Senator Kasemeyer, was one of the proponents of MD's assault weapons ban. I asked him a few simple questions such as what was going to constitute what rifle would or wouldn't be banned. His answer was and I'm paraphrasing it "I really don't much about about them, but I know its a good thing to do." Whhhhaaaaattttttt? Are you kidding me? This guy was clueless about the rifles he was in favor of banning.

[EmDot]

What laws are hindering these so called corrupt dealers from getting caught? The ATF can go into any shop with a search warrant and ask for their paperwork, etc. You acting as if there is no trace of the gun leaving the factory. Your clueless of the paperwork that follows that gun from factory to its eventual owner.

62,000 Guns 'Missing' from Gun Shops Since 2008

More than 62,000 guns disappeared from U.S. firearm dealers' inventories in the past three years without any record that they were sold, according to a report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The estimate means that dealers "lost" on average 56 firearms a day between 2008 and 2010.

In some cases, the weapons could have been stolen or sold under the table or on the black market, circumventing established registration procedures and background checks. They also could simply appear missing after legal sales because of a paperwork or administrative error.

"Missing firearms directly impact law enforcement officials' ability to reduce violent crime," said ATF assistant director for enforcement programs Arthur Herbert. "The inability to identify the retail purchaser of a gun used in violent crime removes the opportunity to secure a lead for where the gun has traveled."

Paul Helmke, president and CEO of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which favors stricter gun control, said the findings reveal an alarming gap in oversight of gun dealers. "It's obvious these folks aren't losing inventory," he said. "They're selling it under the table or out the back door, feeding the criminal market."

[NOTAGUNNUT]

62,000 Guns 'Missing' from Gun Shops Since 2008

Justice Department officials are investigating the disappearance of 449 firearms and 184 laptop computers — at least one containing classified information — from the FBI.
One weapon was stolen from an FBI agent's car in Alabama and later used in a shooting in Detroit, an FBI official said.
The problem of missing weapons extends beyond the FBI. In March, an audit of the Immigration and Naturalization Service found that 539 weapons were unaccounted for.

The government can't even keep track of the firearms it already owns.

What could make anyone think that they could keep track of everything in every gun shop in the Country?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92863&page=1

[jessup270]

The government can't even keep track of the firearms it already owns.

What could make anyone think that they could keep track of everything in every gun shop in the Country?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92863&page=1

The gov does a reasonable job of keeping tracking of motor vehicles, why should firearms be that difficult.

If a licensed car dealer sells ten vehicles and tells the state they have no ideal who purchased the vehicles or when, that is not tolerated.

[Dryfire]

The gov does a reasonable job of keeping tracking of motor vehicles, why should firearms be that difficult.

Would that be why I received a summons to appear to pay for my 4 parking tickets in Montgomery County with my Lincoln Navigator or my tags were going to be suspended.

That was 2-1/2 years after I turned the tags over to the MVA because I junked the car. A Ford escort.

[EmDot]

The government can't even keep track of the firearms it already owns.

What could make anyone think that they could keep track of everything in every gun shop in the Country?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92863&page=1

Is this supposed to be a rebuttal to my post? I was addressing dryfire's assumption that the dealers could provide paperwork from manufacture to purchase on guns going through there shop. Evidently they can't. I wasn't addressing the government's inventory. That's a problem on its own and maybe could be addressed in a different thread. Your "nah, nah, nah, look at them" is apples and oranges and is irrelevant in this case, IMO.

[Phoenix]

The NRA's response is we need more weapons!!!

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,"

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...n-schools?lite

TOTAL FREAKING MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, if a law enforcement officer [good guy] uses a gun to stop a criminal, that is "moronic" by your standards?

Perhaps the only types of gun banners out there seek to ban guns for one of two reasons:

a) you yourself are a criminal engaged in criminal activity, and the last thing you want to face is face an armed good guy.

b) you are a closet racist and are totally opposed to the concept of law abiding people of "color" in possession of a firearm. You cannot stand the thought of a latino or black person in lawful possession of a firearm.

So, which of the two fit you best, oh ye of "naive" persuasion??

[Dryfire]

62,000 Guns 'Missing' from Gun Shops Since 2008

2010 -----21,041 missing from the nearly 15,000,000 guns sold. Percentage wise that's 0.0014 percent are semi-unaccounted for due to some screwed up paperwork, etc. Not bad if you ask me. I applaud how well these guys do.

[Byng]

So, if a law enforcement officer [good guy] uses a gun to stop a criminal, that is "moronic" by your standards?

Perhaps the only types of gun banners out there seek to ban guns for one of two reasons:

a) you yourself are a criminal engaged in criminal activity, and the last thing you want to face is face an armed good guy.

b) you are a closet racist and are totally opposed to the concept of law abiding people of "color" in possession of a firearm. You cannot stand the thought of a latino or black person in lawful possession of a firearm.

So, which of the two fit you best, oh ye of "naive" persuasion??

There is a solution that works:

11:40 AM ET CNN
In Japan, you cannot buy a handgun, much less an assault rifle. In fact, even off-duty police officers are banned from carrying guns.

You can buy a shotgun or an air rifle, but it is not easy:

• First, you have to take a class and a written exam.
• Then there's a skill test at a shooting range
• Next is a drug test
• Then a mental evaluation.
• Assuming you pass all those tests, you file with the police, who then run a background check.

No wonder Japan has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.
But Does it work?

In 2008, the U.S. had 12,000 gun-related murders. Japan had 11. More than double that number were killed in the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/images/misc/progress.gif

[Gopher]

For what it's worth, here are a sample of current laws the Fed's have at their disposal to manage "corrupt" dealers. The statutory maximum sentence is in parentheses.

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1)
Willful sale by licensee to juvenile
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(2)
Willful sale by licensee to person in violation of state law
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4)
Willful sale by licensee of certain prohibited weapons
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(5)
Willful sale by licensee without proper record-keeping
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(d)
Knowing sale to prohibited person
(10 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(m)
Knowing falsification of records by licensee
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 922(s)
Knowing sale or transfer of handgun without background check
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 922(t)
Knowing transfer of firearm without background check
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(3)(A)
Knowing making of false statements by licensee
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 924(h)
Transfer of firearm knowing it will be used to commit specified offenses
(10 years)

26 U.S.C. § 5861(e)
Transfer of firearm in violation of chapter
(10 years)

26 U.S.C. § 5861(l)
Knowingly making false entry on application or record
(10 years)

Keep in mind that these are just some of the laws available and the Fed's don't need the NRA's permission or blessing to enforce or prosecute any of them.

[Dryfire]

For what it's worth, here are a sample of current laws the Fed's have at their disposal to manage "corrupt" dealers. The statutory maximum sentence is in parentheses.

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1)
Willful sale by licensee to juvenile
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(2)
Willful sale by licensee to person in violation of state law
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(4)
Willful sale by licensee of certain prohibited weapons
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(5)
Willful sale by licensee without proper record-keeping
(5 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(d)
Knowing sale to prohibited person
(10 years)

18 U.S.C. § 922(m)
Knowing falsification of records by licensee
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 922(s)
Knowing sale or transfer of handgun without background check
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 922(t)
Knowing transfer of firearm without background check
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(3)(A)
Knowing making of false statements by licensee
(1 year)

18 U.S.C. § 924(h)
Transfer of firearm knowing it will be used to commit specified offenses
(10 years)

26 U.S.C. § 5861(e)
Transfer of firearm in violation of chapter
(10 years)

26 U.S.C. § 5861(l)
Knowingly making false entry on application or record
(10 years)

Keep in mind that these are just some of the laws available and the Fed's don't need the NRA's permission or blessing to enforce or prosecute any of them.

Oh noooooooo! You mean there are laws against the illegal sale of guns and dealers can be prosecuted without the permission of the NRA? What is this world coming to?

[Phoenix]

There is a solution that works:

11:40 AM ET CNN
In Japan, you cannot buy a handgun, much less an assault rifle. In fact, even off-duty police officers are banned from carrying guns.


You can buy a shotgun or an air rifle, but it is not easy:

• First, you have to take a class and a written exam.
• Then there's a skill test at a shooting range
• Next is a drug test
• Then a mental evaluation.
• Assuming you pass all those tests, you file with the police, who then run a background check.

No wonder Japan has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.
But Does it work?

In 2008, the U.S. had 12,000 gun-related murders. Japan had 11. More than double that number were killed in the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

http://talk.baltimoresun.com/images/misc/progress.gif

For the first 6 months of this year, Japan logged a 17% increase in violent crime. Total violent crime reported was 11,304. That works out to a projected rate of 22,608 violent crimes per year for Japan:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=auzVb7j297dM&refer=japan

Reported population count for Japan was about 127 million, or less than half the U.S. If Japan had a population count even close to the U.S., there would be about 45,216 violent crimes reported.

Violent crime in the U.S. is nowhere near a 17% spike.

I’d say that the lack of guns in Japan is contributing to major increases in violent crime there.

And the existence of both firearms and the second amendment in the U.S. is helping keep a lid on violent crime here.

Japan is a poor role model choice, you lose, pick another model gun controlled nation.

[Phoenix]

Then they should shut-up..

So, you are in favor of stomping on another's right of speech guaranteed by the first amendment, in your zeal to stomp out everybody's rights granted under the second amendment?

[EmDot]

2010 -----21,041 missing from the nearly 15,000,000 guns sold. Percentage wise that's 0.0014 percent are semi-unaccounted for due to some screwed up paperwork, etc. Not bad if you ask me. I applaud how well these guys do.

But you said the ATF could get the info from the dealers. Evidently your (sic) clueless. It's not like they're "losing" dish detergent from their inventory. I know I don't have to tell you that guns, in the hands of the wrong persons, can be used to kill people. But it's "not bad" if 21K+ or 0.0014% go missing. Would you be that cavalier about the government losing that amount of something? Are the shops also collecting insurance on these "lost" items (along with the money they may be making selling them illegally)? Doesn't that affect insurance rates for others?

[Byng]

For the first 6 months of this year, Japan logged a 17% increase in violent crime. Total violent crime reported was 11,304. That works out to a projected rate of 22,608 violent crimes per year for Japan:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=auzVb7j297dM&refer=japan

Reported population count for Japan was about 127 million, or less than half the U.S. If Japan had a population count even close to the U.S., there would be about 45,216 violent crimes reported.

Violent crime in the U.S. is nowhere near a 17% spike.

I’d say that the lack of guns in Japan is contributing to major increases in violent crime there.

And the existence of both firearms and the second amendment in the U.S. is helping keep a lid on violent crime here.

Japan is a poor role model choice, you lose, pick another model gun controlled nation.

And of course, us with only half a brain understand that there is a whole lot of difference between "violent crime" and violent deaths.

Ironically a deranged kid in China attacked kids in a classroom almost to the hour of the massacre in Newtown, the difference being he didn't have access to a gun so used a knife! Every one of those children and the teacher survived the attack. How did our kids get on in Newtown?

Most of us have learned when we don't have anything of consequence to say, its better not to say anything at all. Obviously you my friend, are a slow learner.