Will Congress go over the Fiscal Cliff?

[flyboy56]

It comes down to this: the loss of confidence in our government is monumentally more important than any 2-3% rise of top rates on the oligarchy.

Many people are starting to recognize that going over the cliff would be the best thing for this country in the long run. Germany did their austerity reform several years ago which is why they are in better shape today for it. It's only politics that are making this look worse than what it is. It would be bad for Obama politically and would put a serious hurting on his agenda for the new term, and the congress is already in the dumper so why should they care.

[Joy in Mudville]

Many people are starting to recognize that going over the cliff would be the best thing for this country in the long run. Germany did their austerity reform several years ago which is why they are in better shape today for it. It's only politics that are making this look worse than what it is.

Are they?

German economic growth in 2012 by quarter has been...

-.2
+.5
+.3
+.2

Over the same four quarters the US has been

+4.1
+2.0
+1.3
+3.1

So, Germany has been hovering near a double dip for most of the year while the United States has seen slow but steady growth throughout the same period.

Where Germany has done better is the unemployment rate but this is primarily because of their system where companies are encouraged to keep people on the payroll even at reduced hours with benefits as opposed to simply laying people off. Germany also has a much stronger social safety net.

We have seen the Euro countries and the United Kingdom embrace the exact type of austerity measures advocated by the Republicans and illustrated by what we will see with the fiscal cliff and we have seen the Euro struggle with recession and economic malaise while the United States is witnessing a quickening recovery.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit...tes/gdp-growth

[Joy in Mudville]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20337245

"This [the fall into recession] was totally expected because of austerity policies combined with world growth slowing down and a dramatic fall in activity in Germany and the Netherlands," said Steen Jakobsen, chief economist at Saxo Bank.

[zenwalk]

Austerity plans fail because they fail to take into account you can't generate revenue when the country is broke.

[slapshot]

Many people are starting to recognize that going over the cliff would be the best thing for this country in the long run. Germany did their austerity reform several years ago which is why they are in better shape today for it. It's only politics that are making this look worse than what it is. It would be bad for Obama politically and would put a serious hurting on his agenda for the new term, and the congress is already in the dumper so why should they care.

Show me one reputable source that says going over the cliff will be a good thing...?

[BlandFood]

Show me one reputable source that says going over the cliff will be a good thing...?

Does it mean that Bobo's almost unrestricted unemployment will run out? If so.... that IS at least 1 good thing.

[slapshot]

Does it mean that Bobo's almost unrestricted unemployment will run out? If so.... that IS at least 1 good thing.

Is your name flyboy?

[Calamari]

Austerity plans fail because they fail to take into account you can't generate revenue when the country is broke.

Bears repeating.

[BlandFood]

Is your name flyboy?

No but I think Thongor is kinda cool.

[flyboy56]

According to NBC we will go over the cliff. So all who voted yes clap yourselves on the back.

[Bmoreteacher]

According to NBC we will go over the cliff. So all who voted yes clap yourselves on the back.

At this point what does it matter? We were kind of screwed no matter what they did after so many years of refusing to work together. This sickening display of pouting from both sides over not getting what they want is exactly why I voted for Gary Johnson this year.

[Jeebus]

Excellent, they should give themselves a raise.

Oh, they already did.

Let the cuts begin.....

[flyboy56]

It seems President Obama may have squelch the last minute deal by suggesting more tax increases would be discussed when the next debt ceiling debate takes place. According to Maria Bartiromo of CNBC, many Republicans were saying why should they vote for a tax increase now when they will be voting again for more tax increases in a few months. Seems Obama may have intentionally sabotaged the attempt at not going over the cliff.

[Bmoreteacher]

It seems President Obama may have squelch the last minute deal by suggesting more tax increases would be discussed when the next debt ceiling debate takes place. According to Maria Bartiromo of CNBC, many Republicans were saying why should they vote for a tax increase now when they will be voting again for more tax increases in a few months. Seems Obama may have intentionally sabotaged the attempt at not going over the cliff.

This whole debate makes me want to leave the country. Are we going to keep raising the debt ceiling, eliminate it, raise taxes, or slash programs that we need rather than stopping to have a logical conversation about where meaningful cuts could be made? For example, has anyone gotten off 695 at Charles Street lately? Its an awfully pretty median, but how much did that cost us? Same with exit 67 off 95. They completely redid the offramp (and actually made it worse, as traffic now backs up on the ramp...) Were either of those things REALLY necessary? Bridges and paving, absolutely. Beautification projects tied into them? Hell no!

[flyboy56]

This whole debate makes me want to leave the country. Are we going to keep raising the debt ceiling, eliminate it, raise taxes, or slash programs that we need rather than stopping to have a logical conversation about where meaningful cuts could be made? For example, has anyone gotten off 695 at Charles Street lately? Its an awfully pretty median, but how much did that cost us? Same with exit 67 off 95. They completely redid the offramp (and actually made it worse, as traffic now backs up on the ramp...) Were either of those things REALLY necessary? Bridges and paving, absolutely. Beautification projects tied into them? Hell no!

My father had the same concerns when they put in a beautiful "welcome to cape cod" landscape that cost over $1M. That money could have been better spent on infrastructure improvements. Money like these projects are being wasted every single day.

[BlandFood]

This whole debate makes me want to leave the country. Are we going to keep raising the debt ceiling, eliminate it, raise taxes, or slash programs that we need rather than stopping to have a logical conversation about where meaningful cuts could be made? For example, has anyone gotten off 695 at Charles Street lately? Its an awfully pretty median, but how much did that cost us? Same with exit 67 off 95. They completely redid the offramp (and actually made it worse, as traffic now backs up on the ramp...) Were either of those things REALLY necessary? Bridges and paving, absolutely. Beautification projects tied into them? Hell no!

Is extension after extension of unemployment really necessary when people DELIBERATELY scam the system every year? Why is one allowed to take a 6 month gig and loaf 6 months every year when the boardwalk closes? The scam is obvious and the payments come month after month, year after year like clockwork and it isn't stopped. Multiply that $6,000.00 or so by the thousands and see your tax buck at work.

I know such dirtbags..... give you one guess where their political loyalties lie because they know who gives them such a life of luxury.

[flyboy56]

Is extension after extension of unemployment really necessary when people DELIBERATELY scam the system every year? Why is one allowed to take a 6 month gig and loaf 6 months every year when the boardwalk closes? The scam is obvious and the payments come month after month, year after year like clockwork and it isn't stopped. Multiply that $6,000.00 or so by the thousands and see your tax buck at work.

I know such dirtbags..... give you one guess where their political loyalties lie because they know who gives them such a life of luxury.

We have the seasonal workers here in Puerto Rico. They work a summer gig in the US and then collect unemployment from that state and come down here for the winter. It is an amazing scam.

[Bmoreteacher]

Is extension after extension of unemployment really necessary when people DELIBERATELY scam the system every year? Why is one allowed to take a 6 month gig and loaf 6 months every year when the boardwalk closes? The scam is obvious and the payments come month after month, year after year like clockwork and it isn't stopped. Multiply that $6,000.00 or so by the thousands and see your tax buck at work.

I know such dirtbags..... give you one guess where their political loyalties lie because they know who gives them such a life of luxury.

I have no interest in blaming one political party, because both have blood on their hands here. As for entitlement reforms, they are absolutely needed. Teaching in Baltimore City for several years, I have seen first hand how many parents completely abuse the system. I have also seen families who are in genuine need of support to rebuild their lives, but it is shameful that so many are allowed to drain the system despite their repeated failures to make something of themselves.

[Bmoreteacher]

We have the seasonal workers here in Puerto Rico. They work a summer gig in the US and then collect unemployment from that state and come down here for the winter. It is an amazing scam.

Heck no. I'm a teacher, and at least in Maryland, am not eligible for unemployment during the summer (nor should I be!) Since I have been teaching, I have held a second job to ensure that I had enough money over the summer.

[BlandFood]

I have no interest in blaming one political party, because both have blood on their hands here. As for entitlement reforms, they are absolutely needed. Teaching in Baltimore City for several years, I have seen first hand how many parents completely abuse the system. I have also seen families who are in genuine need of support to rebuild their lives, but it is shameful that so many are allowed to drain the system despite their repeated failures to make something of themselves.

Well there you go, it happens on all kinds of levels. you may not have an interest in blaming because you know damn well who supports this crap. At least try and be honest.

I don't think Gingrich pulled the term "Food stamp president" out of his *** for nothing.