Fathers disappear from households across America ......

[soulflower]

Thats fair, I guess. Truth is, I've never seen a single episode of any of these shows. But I do constantly scan the news and I'm a little aware of pop culture trends. I see Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore referenced constantly, and see the players mocked all the time. Basketball Wives? Not so much.

Just because you don't see those shows doesn't mean they don't exist. There's a world outside of the bubble that you live in. I doubt that you spend much time watching VH1 or BET, or reading urban pop culture blogs.

The exploitation of uneducated poor blacks(and whites) on daytime talk shows is probably worse than anything you described about the reality TV shows you mentioned.

I love how you stick to your assumption even after being presented with overwhelming contradictory evidence.

Obviously, it's much safer for any network to go hard on the rednecks, then to focus on trashy blacks as entire groups. Goofy wives and Flavor Flav seem to focus on individuals, while the redneck shows focus on stereotyping entire segments of society.

The black counterpart to Jersey Shore or H. Boo Boo would be a focus on screwed up poor blacks, and you will not see that.

Networks make shows to make money. They're not going to produce certain types of shows to make people feel good about themselves if there isn't a large target audience.

Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore may be exploitative and stereotypical but they are popular shows.

The "urban" reality shows on VH1, BET, and Bravo are just as bad as the Jersey Shore. They're just not as popular outside of Black TV audiences(which is why you've never heard of most of them).

[pepper]

You are free to believe whatever you want, but there are countless studies that show family income is an important factor (not the only factor, by the way) to parental involvement in their child's educational and social well being.




A single parent household, or a household where both parents are working long days just to put food on the table and pay utility bills, etc makes it much tougher to find the energy and/or free time to be heavily engaged in your children's day to day life. My mom was a stay at home mom. My wife is a stay at home mom. We had the financial resources that both my mom and wife were there to be with the kids after school, and slep us/them to countless after school activities. It worked out well for us....but I can only imagine how tough it would be for a single mom/dad trying to be involved in every facet of their kids lives without some help...







I think you are really trying to read too much into this. Poor, uneducated blacks are all over daytime TV. I think Hollywood knows their demographics, during the time periods that they put this crap on.

I appreciate your opinion, and we can hopefully agree to disagree.

[octoburn]

Thats fair, I guess. Truth is, I've never seen a single episode of any of these shows. But I do constantly scan the news and I'm a little aware of pop culture trends. I see Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore referenced constantly, and see the players mocked all the time. Basketball Wives? Not so much.

Obviously, it's much safer for any network to go hard on the rednecks, then to focus on trashy blacks as entire groups. Goofy wives and Flavor Flav seem to focus on individuals, while the redneck shows focus on stereotyping entire segments of society.

The black counterpart to Jersey Shore or H. Boo Boo would be a focus on screwed up poor blacks, and you will not see that.

That would be any episode of Hard Core Pawn or Maury.

[pepper]

Just because you don't see those shows doesn't mean they don't exist. I doubt that you spend much time watching VH1 or BET, or reading urban pop culture blogs.

The exploitation of uneducated poor blacks(and whites) on daytime talk shows is probably worse than anything you described about the reality TV shows you mentioned.

I love how you stick to your assumption even after being presented with overwhelming contradictory evidence.




Networks make shows to make money. They're not going to produce certain types of shows to make people feel good about themselves if there isn't a large target audience.

Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore may be exploitative and stereotypical but they are popular shows.

The "urban" reality shows on VH1, BET, and Bravo are just as bad as the Jersey Shore. They're just not as popular outside of Black TV audiences(which is why you've never heard of most of them).

"I love how you stick to your assumption even after being presented with overwhelming contradictory evidence."

At least you would never be guilty of such a thing, Soul. LOL!!!

[slapshot]

I appreciate your opinion, and we can hopefully agree to disagree.

Sure, why not.

[soulflower]

"I love how you stick to your assumption even after being presented with overwhelming contradictory evidence."

At least you would never be guilty of such a thing, Soul. LOL!!!

Hey, everyone is guilty of it on one issue or another.

I mean no offense. I'm just trying to get you hip to urban pop culture. There are plenty of shows on TV and content on the Net that show blacks in a less than positive light. There's no conspiracy to make blacks look good and whites bad.

However, one strange phenomena is the lack of hispanics and asians on TV. Their stereotypes are totally under-represented on TV.

[dsummoner]

Just because you don't see those shows doesn't mean they don't exist. There's a world outside of the bubble that you live in. I doubt that you spend much time watching VH1 or BET, or reading urban pop culture blogs.

The exploitation of uneducated poor blacks(and whites) on daytime talk shows is probably worse than anything you described about the reality TV shows you mentioned.

I love how you stick to your assumption even after being presented with overwhelming contradictory evidence.




Networks make shows to make money. They're not going to produce certain types of shows to make people feel good about themselves if there isn't a large target audience.

Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore may be exploitative and stereotypical but they are popular shows.

The "urban" reality shows on VH1, BET, and Bravo are just as bad as the Jersey Shore. They're just not as popular outside of Black TV audiences(which is why you've never heard of most of them).

'Exploitative?' In what way?

[bmore_ken]

However, one strange phenomena is the lack of hispanics and asians on TV. Their stereotypes are totally under-represented on TV.

Under represented but it's there. Bait Car, Cops, Border Wars

[soulflower]

'Exploitative?' In what way?

"You're not the father"

[Omaha Beach]

Here we go again

So you think it is just a coincidence that when the out of wedlock birth rate for urban african american children was around 20% in the early sixties the crime rate was no where near what it is now with that group with the out of wedlock birth rate around 70%?

[soulflower]

So you think it is just a coincidence that when the out of wedlock birth rate for urban african american children was around 20% in the early sixties the crime rate was no where near what it is now with that group with the out of wedlock birth rate around 70%?

Crime rates have actually returned to where they were in the 50s and 60s in most parts of the country while the rate of out of wedlock births continues to rise. So you can't blame single parents for crime.


US crime rate at lowest point in decades. Why America is safer now.

The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.

That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...a-is-safer-now

[bmore_ken]

So you think it is just a coincidence that when the out of wedlock birth rate for urban african american children was around 20% in the early sixties the crime rate was no where near what it is now with that group with the out of wedlock birth rate around 70%?

I think if a young black kid in the 60's could make $1000 a week dealing drugs like today there would have been no difference in the crime rates

[Omaha Beach]

I think if a young black kid in the 60's could make $1000 a week dealing drugs like today there would have been no difference in the crime rates

Well maybe if more black children had fathers like you supporting them as they were growing up and not having to depend on a single mother, often on social services, they would not have to resort to the drug trade.

[Omaha Beach]

Crime rates have actually returned to where they were in the 50s and 60s in most parts of the country while the rate of out of wedlock births continues to rise. So you can't blame single parents for crime.


US crime rate at lowest point in decades. Why America is safer now.

The last time the crime rate for serious crime – murder, rape, robbery, assault – fell to these levels, gasoline cost 29 cents a gallon and the average income for a working American was $5,807.

That was 1963.

In the past 20 years, for instance, the murder rate in the United States has dropped by almost half, from 9.8 per 100,000 people in 1991 to 5.0 in 2009. Meanwhile, robberies were down 10 percent in 2010 from the year before and 8 percent in 2009.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...a-is-safer-now

Those crime rates for murders have certainly not fallen in large urban areas where most of the fatherless children are. 500 in Chicago, number of murders in Baltimore up from last year etc etc

[bmore_ken]

Well maybe if more black children had fathers like you supporting them as they were growing up and not having to depend on a single mother, often on social services, they would not have to resort to the drug trade.

I'm a product of a single mother, I didn't have to resort to the drug trade

[soulflower]

Those crime rates for murders have certainly not fallen in large urban areas where most of the fatherless children are. 500 in Chicago, number of murders in Baltimore up from last year etc etc

Chicago and Detroit are exceptions and most of the violent crime in Chicago is attributable to their gang culture. It's a fact that crime overall in the past decade has declined in most cities.

Nationally, crime rates are back to where they were in the 60s

[bmore_ken]

Those crime rates for murders have certainly not fallen in large urban areas where most of the fatherless children are. 500 in Chicago, number of murders in Baltimore up from last year etc etc

Actually up until this year, Baltimore's murder rate has been trending down for a few years. I'm not sure what the spike is about this year

[soulflower]

Actually up until this year, Baltimore's murder rate has been trending down for a few years. I'm not sure what the spike is about this year

No to sound insensitive to murder but it's probably just statistical noise. A slight uptick doesn't change the overall trend of the past decade or so...

[dsummoner]

"You're not the father"

This doesn't answer the question.

[Omaha Beach]

I'm a product of a single mother, I didn't have to resort to the drug trade

Congrats on being the exception to the norm.