Demographics of 2012 Baltimore homicides

[jessup270]

Want to put a big dent in city homicides overnight, pass a state or federal law that mandates felons found in possession of a firearm or ammunition, get a 10 year mandatory sentence, NO exceptions.

There are so many guns on the streets of Baltimore, finding guns to confiscate does almost nothing. Lock up the felons found with firearms, felons commit 90 percent of the homicides in this nation.

Why is this basic fact so hard for politicians to understand.

[BlandFood]

Legalize drugs. That's what most of their disputes are over

They'll still kill each other, it's what they do.

[demopublican]

You don't live in the hood, old news. Why would you know about head shots and hits ?

No I do not.

[demopublican]

They'll still kill each other, it's what they do.

I think in the short term existing gangs may scramble for other products annd illegal activity to replace drugs so violence would not end. But realistically legal access to drugs would suck so much money out of the gangs that violence would drop off dramatically.
But how could we legally distribute drugs like heroin and cocain? Legal pot I can see because it is not deadly. But who could assume the legal responsibility for selling deadly drugs to addicts?

[bmore_ken]

They'll still kill each other, it's what they do.

Not at a rate of 200 per year

[bmore_ken]

I think in the short term existing gangs may scramble for other products annd illegal activity to replace drugs so violence would not end. But realistically legal access to drugs would suck so much money out of the gangs that violence would drop off dramatically.
But how could we legally distribute drugs like heroin and cocain? Legal pot I can see because it is not deadly. But who could assume the legal responsibility for selling deadly drugs to addicts?

People sell deadly alcohol to people, what's the difference?

[jessup270]

People sell deadly alcohol to people, what's the difference?

I used to work part time for one of the nation's largest brewers.

Sometimes in the evening I would walk through the brewery and be in awe of this engineering marvel.

From primary fermentation to the high speed packing, the plant was keep in pristine condition, never any trash or dust allowed.

Then I would think about the beer cans I saw in vehicles where people had died or been severely injured at the scene.

Not to mention the people in prison because they did something really stupid after downing a lot of brewskis.

Bottom line is that people have free will and unfortunately sometimes that free will thing for some folks, is not so good.

[musicmd]

I think in the short term existing gangs may scramble for other products annd illegal activity to replace drugs so violence would not end. But realistically legal access to drugs would suck so much money out of the gangs that violence would drop off dramatically.
But how could we legally distribute drugs like heroin and cocain? Legal pot I can see because it is not deadly. But who could assume the legal responsibility for selling deadly drugs to addicts?

We know, just like prohibition. Illegal activity just like the mob. Crystal ball still working, I see.

[musicmd]

No I do not.

Not a pretty site, trust me. There are two major drugs wars still going on. Yes, I know people in the game. Yet, you have people on this forum, claiming most murders in city are not drug related. I guess their BS makes them feel better.

[musicmd]

You and music man need to support each other when facts get in the way. Come back in two more months and still wont be any arrests. Colder case gets harder to solve. Unless of course some thug who knows who did it rats out the perp to get a deal himself.

You and jeebus would make a cute couple. Complain to BCPD and get a life. Or help them solve the crime WHINE WHINE WHINE. How many white murder victim crimes in city go unsolved? I see all you care about is white victims.

[Omaha Beach]

You and jeebus would make a cute couple. Complain to BCPD and get a life. Or help them solve the crime WHINE WHINE WHINE. How many white murder victim crimes in city go unsolved? I see all you care about is white victims.

Name me the white victims involved in the drug trade and ill say to hell with them just like the black druggies. As far as i know the music professor was a totally innocent man just trying to walk home. Got any evidence to the contrary then turn it over to the pooolice.

[Jeebus]

Complain to BCPD and get a life. Or help them solve the crime WHINE WHINE WHINE.

There are two major drugs wars still going on. Yes, I know people in the game.

So why aren't you down at the police station helping them?

Oh, right - stop snitchin....gotcha.

[pepper]

People sell deadly alcohol to people, what's the difference?

Hi Ken

I think the big difference, and a large factor that killed prohibition, is that unlike hard drugs, so many people, pols, judges, cops, teachers, etc.. commonly drink socially. It'd be different if everyone did hard drugs, which would make it's illegality a difficult charade, which was exactly the case with outlawing alcohol.

I might agree with the idea that legalizing hard drugs like crack or heroin would lower the murder rate, currently driven by the trade.

But since doing so would require a named database, (perscriptions--the government isn't going to supply the hard drugs without a name and the opportunity for treatment. Lawmakers that might concede to legalization would demand such concessions) and with so many involved in the legal system that wouldn't participate, there would still be an underground market to supply.

Theres distribution location hurdles that would be almost impossible to overcome. I think you're a neighbor of mine...how do you think a hard drug distribution store next to Casa Mias would affect that little center? Our surrounding neighborhood? Don't know about you, but I'd vote no.

For those young men involved in the drug game killings...legalization might take some wind from their sails, but then what? They would not be somehow given a work or educational ethic the day after that legislation passed. The would still be completely unemployable and ignorant. The fast easy money would have to come from somewhere else.

Don't get me wrong..I have no answers and theres pros and cons worth debating. The current set-up is obviously not working. The massive waste of Human lives (suspects and victims) and tax dollars is insane.

I'd like to see DC or Detroit or Philly legalize first, and we'd see how well that works out for them.

[pepper]

Want to put a big dent in city homicides overnight, pass a state or federal law that mandates felons found in possession of a firearm or ammunition, get a 10 year mandatory sentence, NO exceptions.

There are so many guns on the streets of Baltimore, finding guns to confiscate does almost nothing. Lock up the felons found with firearms, felons commit 90 percent of the homicides in this nation.

Why is this basic fact so hard for politicians to understand.

They do understand it, and your plan would go a long way towards getting bad guys off the street.

Unfortunately, even in hard hit neighborhoods, many constituents have a problem with so many young black men behind bars as it is, the idea of so many more is unworkable. Few pols like to point a finger at the voters, which in places like Baltimore are overwhelmingly older black females. Thats their children you're asking to put the serious clamps on.

Given our racist judicial history, thats a tough thing to address with the blessings of the voters. Many people think theres way to many young men in prison, even as their own neighborhoods are being destroyed by guys that should already be locked up.

[sigmalady]

They do understand it, and your plan would go a long way towards getting bad guys off the street.

Unfortunately, even in hard hit neighborhoods, many constituents have a problem with so many young black men behind bars as it is, the idea of so many more is unworkable. Few pols like to point a finger at the voters, which in places like Baltimore are overwhelmingly older black females. Thats their children you're asking to put the serious clamps on.

Given our racist judicial history, thats a tough thing to address with the blessings of the voters. Many people think theres way to many young men in prison, even as their own neighborhoods are being destroyed by guys that should already be locked up.

What is your definition of 'older black females'?

[pepper]

What is your definition of 'older black females'?

In Baltimore city, it's females aged 45 to 65. Thats not my definition, it's the state board of elections count, and it's the majority of registered, eligible voters.

Thats the group politicians answer to in Baltimore.


http://www.elections.state.md.us/pre...ore%20city.pdf

Unless I read this wrong, in which case I'll readily concede.

.

[musicmd]

So why aren't you down at the police station helping them?

Oh, right - stop snitchin....gotcha.

Right behind you, but a certain stench makes it hard.

When was last time you snitch on an asian. Dobbie brothers, what a fool believes. So why aren't you down at the police station helping them, go sail a junk boat, and leave me alone.

[bmore_ken]

Hi Ken

I think the big difference, and a large factor that killed prohibition, is that unlike hard drugs, so many people, pols, judges, cops, teachers, etc.. commonly drink socially. It'd be different if everyone did hard drugs, which would make it's illegality a difficult charade, which was exactly the case with outlawing alcohol.

I might agree with the idea that legalizing hard drugs like crack or heroin would lower the murder rate, currently driven by the trade.

But since doing so would require a named database, (perscriptions--the government isn't going to supply the hard drugs without a name and the opportunity for treatment. Lawmakers that might concede to legalization would demand such concessions) and with so many involved in the legal system that wouldn't participate, there would still be an underground market to supply.

Theres distribution location hurdles that would be almost impossible to overcome. I think you're a neighbor of mine...how do you think a hard drug distribution store next to Casa Mias would affect that little center? Our surrounding neighborhood? Don't know about you, but I'd vote no.

For those young men involved in the drug game killings...legalization might take some wind from their sails, but then what? They would not be somehow given a work or educational ethic the day after that legislation passed. The would still be completely unemployable and ignorant. The fast easy money would have to come from somewhere else.

Don't get me wrong..I have no answers and theres pros and cons worth debating. The current set-up is obviously not working. The massive waste of Human lives (suspects and victims) and tax dollars is insane.

I'd like to see DC or Detroit or Philly legalize first, and we'd see how well that works out for them.

Howdy. Taking your post point by point

We don't know how many pols, judges, cops, teachers, etc use hard drugs when they're off the job because it's illegal. Do you think a judge would have admitted to drinking alcohol during prohibition? Of course not. I see where you're going with that I just don't see it as an impediment

Has there ever been a named database for alcohol buyers? Why would one be insisted upon for legalized drugs. Alcohol is a legalized drug.

Distribution? Do Baltimore city residents get a vote on liquor stores in their neighborhood, why would we?

The young men? Perhaps they may find some other racket, but has there ever been a more profitable racket as illegal drugs? The only one I can think of is alcohol which is why prohibition didn't work. What could possibly replace that profit margin that the young men would be willing to die for? I can't think of anything.

The reality is legalization is working in some European countries. I like the idea of one state being a test state, but what state would throw itself out there first? Perhaps we can start with the legalization of Marijuana first and see what happens. Like you I don't have the crystal ball to know what would work, but also like you I agree that what we have now isn't working.

[pepper]

Howdy. Taking your post point by point

We don't know how many pols, judges, cops, teachers, etc use hard drugs when they're off the job because it's illegal. Do you think a judge would have admitted to drinking alcohol during prohibition? Of course not. I see where you're going with that I just don't see it as an impediment

Has there ever been a named database for alcohol buyers? Why would one be insisted upon for legalized drugs. Alcohol is a legalized drug.

Distribution? Do Baltimore city residents get a vote on liquor stores in their neighborhood, why would we?

The young men? Perhaps they may find some other racket, but has there ever been a more profitable racket as illegal drugs? The only one I can think of is alcohol which is why prohibition didn't work. What could possibly replace that profit margin that the young men would be willing to die for? I can't think of anything.

The reality is legalization is working in some European countries. I like the idea of one state being a test state, but what state would throw itself out there first? Perhaps we can start with the legalization of Marijuana first and see what happens. Like you I don't have the crystal ball to know what would work, but also like you I agree that what we have now isn't working.

Ken, I think it's safe to assume that most of the folks I mentioned, like most of anyone, don't have a secret crack or heroin addiction, certainly not one that overtakes their lives and is not noticeable. Then again, having never done that stuff, I may be wrong...

On the legalization, I think that drink, at least as a social aspect, is something most adults do at some point. The government is cool with the current regulations and certainly the tax aspects, so we (they) are willing to accept the level of carnage.

legalizing hard drugs would be a dramatic change, and would demand that pols not simply say OK, but would demand certain stipulations to appease the majority of folks (voters) that don't do the drugs being legalized. (I'm not talking about weed, but even there, check the layers of legalities imposed)

I can't imagine legalization happening without lawmakers demanding a database, the opportunity for counseling, and a very strict location and distribution mode. And you know, most communities will fight tooth and nail to prevent a crack or heroin distribution point in their neighborhood.

As for the liquor stores that dominate some areas in the city, on every corner, yes, local residents do get a vote, thats why it's not the case in our neighborhood. Where folks are lethargic, they get dumped on. Politics is largely a call and response thing. If you don't respond, you will get rolled over. In our community, theres about 4000 less apartments and townhomes in the Honeygo development are because voters said no, and local pols wanted to keep their jobs. (still a mess though, isn't it?)

City residents DO have a say, it's just that not enough said anything.

On the last, I agree about the profitability of illegal drugs. Few things rate that sort of demand. The only real way out of that is to lessen that demand.

Not easy, and I take the uncomfortable position that lots of these dealers and the addicts they serve should not exist in the first place. That lots of these folks should never have been born. That they are the products of a careless union between folks that couldn't possibly even begin to protect them against becoming predator or victim.

BTW, I do not advocate forced sterilization and I'm not a fan of abortion. The change I imagine has to come from the community itself.

On Europe, check out the places like Amsterdam and see how they really regret the legalization of hard drugs and becoming the hippy backpackers and tourist destinations of choice. Many regret turning city parks and tourist areas into zombie dead zones and are backing away from liberal drug policy.


And thanks for the cool debate.

[soulflower]

Ken, I think it's safe to assume that most of the folks I mentioned, like most of anyone, don't have a secret crack or heroin addiction, certainly not one that overtakes their lives and is not noticeable. Then again, having never done that stuff, I may be wrong...

While there are plenty of folks who do drugs like cocaine or marijuana yet manage to keep and maintain professional careers, I agree that it's difficult for people to hide harder drug abuse like heroin or crack from their co-workers.