Billick back to Head Coach?

[OriginalColtsFan]

Yes, I believe he was a great coach. In nine years, he has had three losing seasons (and there were reasons for most of them - most notably, injuries).

Even though it didn't work out, I agreed somewhat with the Trent Dilfer/Elvis Grbac deal at the time. Billick was trying to improve at the quarterback position and Dilfer was only a stopgap type of quarterback. Grbac seemed to be a good choice at the time.

I do agree with you that he sometimes played not to lose; but, by most accounts, Billick had been a successful coach and for many of the reasons you posted. Coaches have many responsibilities beyond game-day decisions. And I would argue that those responsibilities are more important. Coaches need to be able to know how to react to their players. Some need to be handled with a firm fist, while others need to be coddled. Successful coaches IMHO also need to find a way to be upfront with players and other coaches in a way that won't piss them off. To me, that was the most difficult, because many do not like to be told the truth - or as Jack Nicholson would say. "They can't handle the truth!"

Billick didn't "sometimes" play not to lose. He ALWAYS played not to lose when everything was on the line. Was Marty Schottenheimer a "great" coach? In the regular season, his record is incomparable. In the post season, his record stunk to high heaven. Since the point of coaching in the NFL is to succeed in the post season, the regular season W/L record pales by comparison. And even BB's regular season record is not all that wonderful -- over 500, but not by that much. So really...other than that one great season, BB is arguably the worst HC to have ever won a SB. THAT'S really his legacy. (Other than the sense that he's an arrogant legend in his own mind who, despite acknowledging that he was never an X's and O's guy, refused to allow his OC's to do their job and possibly gain more of the spotlight than he himself. He cost the Ravens more than he gave them, and that's inexcusable IMO.)

[Eastside Terp]

I'm not sure what your point is comparing BB to the rest of those losers. They're ALL losers. So what's your point? Pitting one loser against another group of losers? Seems totally pointless to me.

they, or at least turner and crennel, are on the list that bud linked to as legitimate hc candidates where bb isn't listed .......

sorry, but if that is the conventional thinking than I disagree and think bb would be a better candidate at this time .......

[OriginalColtsFan]

they, or at least turner and crennel, are on the list that bud linked to as legitimate hc candidates where bb isn't listed .......

sorry, but if that is the conventional thinking than I disagree and think bb would be a better candidate at this time .......

Well, in that sense, I agree with what you're saying. I also heard that Schotty was on some team's lists as well. IMO, ANY team that hires Crennel deserves what they get. Lovie Smith too. They will probably be little more than Rooney Rule candidates. Then again...some teams just don't appear to be very bright. So who knows.

[NCBirdfan]

Billick didn't "sometimes" play not to lose. He ALWAYS played not to lose when everything was on the line. Was Marty Schottenheimer a "great" coach? In the regular season, his record is incomparable. In the post season, his record stunk to high heaven. Since the point of coaching in the NFL is to succeed in the post season, the regular season W/L record pales by comparison. And even BB's regular season record is not all that wonderful -- over 500, but not by that much. So really...other than that one great season, BB is arguably the worst HC to have ever won a SB. THAT'S really his legacy. (Other than the sense that he's an arrogant legend in his own mind who, despite acknowledging that he was never an X's and O's guy, refused to allow his OC's to do their job and possibly gain more of the spotlight than he himself. He cost the Ravens more than he gave them, and that's inexcusable IMO.)

Billick had an 80-64 record in nine years as coach of the Ravens. He also has a Super Bowl victory on his resume. Many of those losses came in seasons where mac.ny injuries piled up during the season. (Bill Belichik is the only coach in recent history IMO that has been consistently able to overcome injuries. He is the exception to the rule that teams need to be healthy to succeed, et)

I'd take a thousand Billicks or Schottenheimers over most of the coaches out there. You have also rightfully criticized Harbaugh for his blunders - most notably his challenges and game-clock usage, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great coach. No coach is perfect and they all have their flaws and negative tendencies. But, at the end of the day, it's all about wins and losses. With that said, Harbaugh currently ranks very high on the best all-time coach list.

As you would say, "We disagree, but all's good."

[bud]

Billick had an 80-64 record in nine years as coach of the Ravens. He also has a Super Bowl victory on his resume. Many of those losses came in seasons where mac.ny injuries piled up during the season. (Bill Belichik is the only coach in recent history IMO that has been consistently able to overcome injuries. He is the exception to the rule that teams need to be healthy to succeed, et)

I'd take a thousand Billicks or Schottenheimers over most of the coaches out there. You have also rightfully criticized Harbaugh for his blunders - most notably his challenges and game-clock usage, but that doesn't mean he isn't a great coach. No coach is perfect and they all have their flaws and negative tendencies. But, at the end of the day, it's all about wins and losses. With that said, Harbaugh currently ranks very high on the best all-time coach list.

As you would say, "We disagree, but all's good."

Harbaugh had 20 guys on IR the year after we fired Billick and the team went to the AFC Championship. Billick teams never developed any depth. He believed players did best when they prepared on their own. Sure, that works for some players. That said, the vast majority need formal instruction and guidance. At times, it appeared like Billick wanted to be buddies with the guys as opposed to their boss.

[NCBirdfan]

Harbaugh had 20 guys on IR the year after we fired Billick and the team went to the AFC Championship.

You're correct. I forgot about that season.

Billick teams never developed any depth. He believed players did best when they prepared on their own. Sure, that works for some players. That said, the vast majority need formal instruction and guidance. At times, it appeared like Billick wanted to be buddies with the guys as opposed to their boss.

Again. I agree that his teams sometimes just fell off the map when injuries mounted. That was a major Achilles heal for him. However, that doesn't take away from his results. If you don't like his coaching style, that's fine. And I'm also on board with you there. But he had more success than most of the coaches in the NFL.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Billick had an 80-64 record in nine years as coach of the Ravens.

Just to be clear...80-64 translates to: .555 (80 wins out of 144 games; 80 divided by 144 = .555). Just a tad over 500, as I said.

And you'd prefer Billick and Schotty? Then we clearly shall agree to disagree.

[NCBirdfan]

Just to be clear...80-64 translates to: .555 (80 wins out of 144 games; 80 divided by 144 = .555). Just a tad over 500, as I said.

And you'd prefer Billick and Schotty? Then we clearly shall agree to disagree.

OCF, how many other coaches can you name that have a better record in nine seasons along with a Super Bowl win? .555 looks pretty good when comparing Billick with his peers, don'tcha think?

And I didn't say I'd take Billick or Schottenheimer exclusively...I said I'd take them over most of the coaches in the NFL...the Ravens fired Billick and it turned out well when they got Harbaugh, but the Ravens could have easily hired the likes of Dick Lebeu, who is a great DC but was a lousy coach, David SHula - no winning seasons in 5 years with the Bengals, Rod Marinelli, Marty Mornhinweg, Chris Palmer, Joe Bugel, etc. For every Billick you can find you can find a zillion Dan Hennings. I never said Billick was the best coach of all time, but he was definitely a great coach for most of the time he was in Baltimore. And there are far more worst coaches than him. Coaches like Vince Lombardi only come once in a lifetime.

[OriginalColtsFan]

OCF, how many other coaches can you name that have a better record in nine seasons along with a Super Bowl win? .555 looks pretty good when comparing Billick with his peers, don'tcha think?

And I didn't say I'd take Billick or Schottenheimer exclusively...I said I'd take them over most of the coaches in the NFL...the Ravens fired Billick and it turned out well when they got Harbaugh, but the Ravens could have easily hired the likes of Dick Lebeu, who is a great DC but was a lousy coach, David SHula - no winning seasons in 5 years with the Bengals, Rod Marinelli, Marty Mornhinweg, Chris Palmer, Joe Bugel, etc. For every Billick you can find you can find a zillion Dan Hennings. I never said Billick was the best coach of all time, but he was definitely a great coach for most of the time he was in Baltimore. And there are far more worst coaches than him. Coaches like Vince Lombardi only come once in a lifetime.

Comparing any coach to bad coaches is pointless, IMO. Just like saying: "Be happy you're not a fan of the Browns, etc." I prefer to compare any coach or any team to EXCELLENT coaches and/or teams. And that's where we clearly take different roads. N/P.

And the more I think about it, the more it has to do with timing. It was clear to me that Cam Cameron needed to be gone YEARS ago. I've seen too many posters say: "I'll give him one more, two more, three more years, etc." Some people just SEE things earlier than others, is all. It was the same with Billick. He SHOULD have been gone after that Detroit game in 2005. Even Tom Matte said so. Because it was clear that he'd lost the team. Yet he stayed on, but to no avail. Just more wasted years and more wasted opportunities as the defense continued to age in place. I see nothing good or positive resulting from any of that. Yeah, 2006 he almost did something good, before he screwed the pooch against Indy. He should have been fired at half time. 20 years from now, when the Ravens STILL haven 't won another Lombardi, some of the same stupid fans will STILL be saying: "BUT HE WON A SUPER BOWL". Yeah. Big whoop.

[durango46]

Billick was a pretty good coach. Nothing great but pretty good. He put the Ravens on the map.

IMO, Ozzies draft picks made him even better. Not to say he didn't have some input in who those draft picks were.
The Ravens had one hell of a football team back then.
Anyone else think they underachieved though ?

owever, I do feel that his time was up when he was fired. He still had damn good football team here. Billicks big mistake, attaching himself to Boller for so long. Regardless of how bad Boller continued to play, Billick felt the need to keep defend him. And he was pretty arrogant about it, almost to the point that he was trying to prove the fan base wrong.

Call me crazy but I still believe the fans had a lot to do with him being fired because of the Boller fiasco.

just my take

[Eastside Terp]

Harbaugh had 20 guys on IR the year after we fired Billick and the team went to the AFC Championship. Billick teams never developed any depth.

seems like most teams had to make more staffing decisions back then ......

has the salary cap situation in the league changed in the past 5 years? ........

I remember the ravens during BB tenure, the steelers and lot of other teams having big salary cap purges and cycling between playoff teams and down years with 5 or 6 wins ..........

don't seem to see those purges and swings as much anymore .......

not sure if teams are just handling it better or the cap rules have changed ......

[NCBirdfan]

Comparing any coach to bad coaches is pointless, IMO. Just like saying: "Be happy you're not a fan of the Browns, etc." I prefer to compare any coach or any team to EXCELLENT coaches and/or teams. And that's where we clearly take different roads. N/P.

And the more I think about it, the more it has to do with timing. It was clear to me that Cam Cameron needed to be gone YEARS ago. I've seen too many posters say: "I'll give him one more, two more, three more years, etc." Some people just SEE things earlier than others, is all. It was the same with Billick. He SHOULD have been gone after that Detroit game in 2005. Even Tom Matte said so. Because it was clear that he'd lost the team. Yet he stayed on, but to no avail. Just more wasted years and more wasted opportunities as the defense continued to age in place. I see nothing good or positive resulting from any of that. Yeah, 2006 he almost did something good, before he screwed the pooch against Indy. He should have been fired at half time. 20 years from now, when the Ravens STILL haven 't won another Lombardi, some of the same stupid fans will STILL be saying: "BUT HE WON A SUPER BOWL". Yeah. Big whoop.

The Billick firing turned out better than it could have been. The Ravens took a chance and hired a special teams coach with no head coaching experience and hit the jackpot with Harbaugh.

Let's look at another coach you mentioned: Marty Schottenheimer

He was fired after a 15-1 season because of the notion that his teams never got to the next step. The Chargers replaced him with a great offensive coordinator. My questions to you are, "Have the Chargers been a better team or a worse team since his departure? Have they reached the Super Bowl, you know, the thing that Schottenheimer couldn't do?" The answer to that is a resounding no.

[Eastside Terp]

The Billick firing turned out better than it could have been. The Ravens took a chance and hired a special teams coach with no head coaching experience and hit the jackpot with Harbaugh.

Let's look at another coach you mentioned: Marty Schottenheimer

He was fired after a 15-1 season because of the notion that his teams never got to the next step. The Chargers replaced him with a great offensive coordinator. My question to you is, "Have the Chargers been a better team or a worse team since his departure? Have they reached the Super Bowl, you know, the thing that Schottenheimer couldn't do? The answer to that is a resounding no.

look how loud they were calling for coughlin's head and what happened when they brought him back .......

[Ford Prefect]

look how loud they were calling for coughlin's head and what happened when they brought him back .......

The main reason that good teams like the Giants, Steelers and Ravens hold on to their good head coaches even when they don't win it all is because the chances of finding lightning in a bottle with the new hire is rare and the odds of getting a Cam Cameron are much higher. Fans can get upset with coaches that ONLY take them to the playoffs, but they will still fill the stadiums. Those same fans will think twice about attending their teams' games if the coaches don't even get them into contention. That is why I can't afford to see the Ravens play at home but get bargains when I see them on the road. I paid $40 a ticket to see them on the 40-yard line in Charlotte a few years ago - best seats I ever had in an NFL game.

[NCBirdfan]

The main reason that good teams like the Giants, Steelers and Ravens hold on to their good head coaches even when they don't win it all is because the chances of finding lightning in a bottle with the new hire is rare and the odds of getting a Cam Cameron are much higher. Fans can get upset with coaches that ONLY take them to the playoffs, but they will still fill the stadiums. Those same fans will think twice about attending their teams' games if the coaches don't even get them into contention. That is why I can't afford to see the Ravens play at home but get bargains when I see them on the road. I paid $40 a ticket to see them on the 40-yard line in Charlotte a few years ago - best seats I ever had in an NFL game.

I was at that game too. Wow..my tickets were about $35 but I was not that close. I still had good seats though and I, too, see many games on the road. I've never seen a game in Baltimore but hope to someday.

[bud]

That is why I can't afford to see the Ravens play at home but get bargains when I see them on the road. I paid $40 a ticket to see them on the 40-yard line in Charlotte a few years ago - best seats I ever had in an NFL game.

I do know that people aren't willing to shell out the money for the playoffs this year. I have to work Sunday, so I am forced to sell. I only made $50 over face value. The guy who sits next to me sold his tix to the Texans playoff game last year for $400 profit. He texted me this morning stating he hasn't had a bite above face value yet. In other words, it's a buyers market this year.

[NCBirdfan]

I do know that people aren't willing to shell out the money for the playoffs this year. I have to work Sunday, so I am forced to sell. I only made $50 over face value. The guy who sits next to me sold his tix to the Texans playoff game last year for $400 profit. He texted me this morning stating he hasn't had a bite above face value yet. In other words, it's a buyers market this year.

$50 over face value is better than buying tickets at a discount, which I have done in Charlotte, Cleveland and Miami in past years. I actually paid $15 for tickets at one Cleveland game. $15!!! And the seats weren't terrible either.

[Saticon3]

Why would anyone want him as HC? He won a SB here with one of the greatest Defenses ever to take the field in the NFL which was built before he got here. He never developed a credible QB or offense and when the D couldn't carry the whole team anymore, he couldn't keep it going.

[Nightman]

I do know that people aren't willing to shell out the money for the playoffs this year. I have to work Sunday, so I am forced to sell. I only made $50 over face value. The guy who sits next to me sold his tix to the Texans playoff game last year for $400 profit. He texted me this morning stating he hasn't had a bite above face value yet. In other words, it's a buyers market this year.

Ticketmaster.com still has single tickets in almost all pricing sections, except lower sideline as we speak. I bought my single for the Colts-Ravens playoff game as soon as they went on sale in Section 513 Row 4. I agree its a buyers market, the only way you could possibly eke out a small profit is if you have at least two together.

[NCBirdfan]

Why would anyone want him as HC? He won a SB here with one of the greatest Defenses ever to take the field in the NFL which was built before he got here. He never developed a credible QB or offense and when the D couldn't carry the whole team anymore, he couldn't keep it going.

This could be one reason. I'd be surprised if anyone even interviews him, but you don't just get lucky and win the Super Bowl. Billick deserves credit for getting the Ravens there and winning it all.