Gloria Borger(CNN) calls out everybody on the fiscal cliff

[Rael]

So if he leads the country where he thinks it needs to go, that's cool. Like Obamacare and gun control and higher taxes on the wealthy?

His intention re those things has hardly been behind closed doors.

I'm not so sure that is true Maggie. Take health care. Sure, he talks a good game of "everyone will be able to keep their work coverage if they like it". However, I believe the end game is that companies will drop coverage as there will be an alternative. As more and more companies attempt to bring costs under control, more and more coverage will be dropped until the alternative becomes the ONLY alternative. I think this is the ultimate goal. I'd have more respect if he as a leader told us exactly what he is striving for and why it should be a good thing. Instead (again, in my opinion) he lets us know just enough of his intentions to remain palatable to the average citizen.

[flyboy56]

I actually agree with you on this. I'm against taxes going up until they get serious about spending. But both sides need to be in play to get the debt down.

Ideally, we bring the budget into balance going forward and require it to be in balance each year. Then any new revenue should be dedicated to paying down the debt and taking care of the debt service so it isn't part of the budget any longer. Once the debt is taken care of, that revenue stream is no longer needed. Of course, that would be ideal.

Just the way any family household in America should run their budget.

[flyboy56]

I'm not so sure that is true Maggie. Take health care. Sure, he talks a good game of "everyone will be able to keep their work coverage if they like it". However, I believe the end game is that companies will drop coverage as there will be an alternative. As more and more companies attempt to bring costs under control, more and more coverage will be dropped until the alternative becomes the ONLY alternative. I think this is the ultimate goal. I'd have more respect if he as a leader told us exactly what he is striving for and why it should be a good thing. Instead (again, in my opinion) he lets us know just enough of his intentions to remain palatable to the average citizen.

Excellent point Rael. We were promised more transparency under an Obama administration. Yet we have gotten far less. Isn't transparency good for everyone?

[flyboy56]

It was Obama's commission, he should have lead on it and didn't. I've made that complaint here many times.

You, me and many others have made the complaint that President Obama does not like to negotiate. Romney would have been better at requiring negotiations end only when an agreement has been reached. Not letting things hang until the last minute and then only strike a bad deal.

[Omaha Beach]

Maybe drinking a Harp? Always a good idea.

Apparently was a lyre. (I knew a fella once who made lyres, a surprisingly lucrative business!!)

Happy New Year OB.

Same to you. Stay healthy!

[cprenegade]

You're right.

I don't understand why the President continues to pander to the part of the Democratic Party that refuses to discuss spending cuts in a meaningful way.

He doesn't need their votes, and in 2014 they're not about to run to the Republicans.

He's overplaying his hand.

And the hard right that would not even discuss revenue as part of the solution are just as useless. Our generation created this problem and we have to fix it. And that means we have to cut up the credit cards and pay down the balances.

Somwhere, somehow, these people need to start behaving like adults and get serious about what we've done.

Passing this problem on to our kids is reprehensible to even consider.

I'd like to see them go back to Simpson Bowles as a starting point. It really was a good idea, too bad no one pushed for it after it didn't get the votes it needed the first time around.

Exactly. The ones on the left who refuse to discuss spending cuts are part of the problem. The ones on the right who refuse to accept the fact that revenues need to be increased to pay down debt are equally as much part of the problem. Of course some here would rather point fingers at the other side and refuse to accept that both sides share blame. Some should really look up the term "partisan."