Background checks and registering sales is "extreme"

[Grindelwald]

It does not infringe anything, you are delusional, along with your lowly 5%.

[soultrain]

It does not infringe anything, you are delusional, along with your lowly 5%.

F. Class dismissed

[Grindelwald]

Like my avatar, intellectually-challenged one?

[Daan]

I'm fine with background checks. Not sure I understand what the purposes in registering sales would be but if there isn't a strong argument for it then my default is against state coercion. Most of the guns used in crimes aren't being obtained in anything resembling a legal fashion as it is so I'm not sure what it's intended to prevent.

Have you seen what the new background check proposes? This is not just for new purchases, this will include all firearms already owned as well. Handgun and shotguns will be reclassifed as assault weapons if they have at least one military characteristic (what would they be).

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...ssault-weapons
Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

• Background check of owner and any transferee;
• Type and serial number of the firearm;
• Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
• Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
• Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

I believe that current National Firearms Act (NFA) weapons are strictly controlled and the registration fee is not cheap.

And the anti-gun nutters claim this is not infringement. This is police state government.

The purpose historically for firearms registration is so that they can be confiscated later.

This current rush to pass this new gun legislation is being promoted using dead children even though this WILL NOT prevent another Sandy Hook type incident. Feinstein and her ilk have waited for just such an opportunity to renew their total gun ban goal. Diane Feinstein admitted in public that if she had the votes to do it she would "tell Mr and Mrs America to turn them all in".

And after all of this is said and done people will realize that it will not prevent another Sandy Hook or even something worse.

The Columbine tragedy was bad but nothing like what Klebold and Harris had planned. They planted propane bomb devices in the cafeteria timed to explode when the cafeteria was full. Over 400 school children were planned to be killed without using any firearm. Only the fact that the devices failed to detonate is what saved hundreds of school children.

Feinstein and her ilk will have made virtually no impact on mass killing type incidents.

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[OldBay]

What do "unreasonable searches" have to do with anything? A background check isn't unreasonable and it isn't a search. People are so uneducated. Of all the things to complain about, background checks isn't one of them, unless you're against trying to reduce ways criminals can obtain guns.

Re-read my post #129 and please explain how it would be possible for me to conduct a background check on the farmer with whom I traded my shotgun for his chainsaw.

In addition, that particular shotgun had no serial number. So, tell us how it could be tracked by someone.

The background check idea for private sales is a solution in search of a problem.

[Daan]

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Does Gun Registration affect crime?

http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf
Quote

Myth: Gun registration works
Fact: Not in California. California has had handgun registration since 190992 and it has not any impact of violent crime rate.93

Fact: Not in New Zealand. They repealed their gun registration law in the 1980s after police acknowledged its worthlessness.94

Fact: Not in Australia. One report states, “It seems just to be an elaborate system of arithmetic with no tangible aim. Probably, and with the best of intentions, it may have been thought, that if it were known what firearms each individual in Victoria owned, some form of control may be exercised, and those who were guilty of criminal misuse could be readily identified. This is a fallacy, and has been proven not to be the case.”95 In addition, cost to Australian taxpayers exceeded $200 million annually.96

End Quote


Gun registration will be another costly boondoggle. But hey, if it makes the antigun do-gooders and the gun banners feel good...

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[Daan]

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NELSON T. “PETE” SHIELDS, CHAIRMAN EMERITUS, HANDGUN CONTROL, INC.
http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf
Quote

“The final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal.”454

“Yes, I'm for an outright ban [on handguns].”455

“We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily - given the political realities - very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of handguns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal.”456

End Quote


Their agenda is no secret.

The original name of this organization was: National Council to Ban Handguns

( How to Boil a Frog )

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[Gopher]

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NELSON T. “PETE” SHIELDS, CHAIRMAN EMERITUS, HANDGUN CONTROL, INC.
http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf
Quote

“The final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal.”454

“Yes, I'm for an outright ban [on handguns].”455

“We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily - given the political realities - very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of handguns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal.”456

End Quote


Their agenda is no secret.

The original name of this organization was: National Council to Ban Handguns

( How to Boil a Frog )

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Handgun Control, Inc. currently goes by a different name. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

[Daan]

Handgun Control, Inc. currently goes by a different name. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Thanks for the correction.

Speaking of the Brady's:
http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/...6_1_screen.pdf
Quote

SARAH BRADY, CHAIRPERSON FOR HANDGUN CONTROL, INC. (NOW THE BRADY CAMPAIGN)

“I don't believe gun owners have rights.”457
“We would like to see, in the future, what we will probably call needs-based licensing of all weapons. ...Where it would make it much more difficult for anybody to be able to purchase handguns....”458
“To me, the only reason for guns in civilian hands is for sporting purposes.”459

JIM BRADY

“[Using handguns] for target shooting, that’s okay. Get a license and go to the range. For defense of the home, that’s why we have police.”460

The Supreme court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect you.

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[Jeebus]

Of all the things to complain about, background checks isn't one of them, unless you're against trying to reduce ways criminals can obtain guns.

You think criminals obtain their guns via legal background checks?

I thought these recent mass murderers were perpetrated by individuals who were legally allowed to purchase a firearm (eg they would have passed a background check) up until the time of their crimes.

So tell me again.....how is a background check is gonna stop a "future" criminal?

(And although I don't have the data, I would wager that over 95% of the firearms crimes in Baltimore City are committed using an illegally obtained firearm, something that no background check is gonna help).

[soultrain]

The Supreme court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect you.

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And in nearly all cases show up too late for anything but stenography

[Gopher]

BTW, Senator Dianne Feinstein was a member of the HCI National Committee. For future reference, The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, the Million Mom March and the Billion Mom March are all affiliated or offshoots of each other. Same progressives. Same goals. Ban the civilian possession of handguns. Black rifles are just a smokescreen.

[Gopher]

Thanks for the correction.

No problem. Not intended as a correction. Just helping out.

[Phineas Finn]

The really disappointing part of the edition of the gun argument is the degree to which the mainstream media has ignored the core reason for many (if not most) of the dedicated opposition to restrictions on magazine size and guns designed primarily for either self defense or killing others -- the idea that these guns are necessary to protect their owners from the government, to arm a revolution should it become necessary.

They're giving you all a break.

[soultrain]

The really disappointing part of the edition of the gun argument is the degree to which the mainstream media has ignored the core reason for many (if not most) of the dedicated opposition to restrictions on magazine size and guns designed primarily for either self defense or killing others -- the idea that these guns are necessary to protect their owners from the government, to arm a revolution should it become necessary.

They're giving you all a break.

Well that's mighty nice of em, sticking their heads in the sand and all. Wouldn't want to tackle the elephant in the room, way too politically dangerous

[Grindelwald]

You think criminals obtain their guns via legal background checks?I thought these recent mass murderers were perpetrated by individuals who were legally allowed to purchase a firearm (eg they would have passed a background check) up until the time of their crimes.So tell me again.....how is a background check is gonna stop a "future" criminal?(And although I don't have the data, I would wager that over 95% of the firearms crimes in Baltimore City are committed using an illegally obtained firearm, something that no background check is gonna help).

It limits the ways criminals can get a gun. What's the downside?

Oh that's right, there isn't any.

[Daan]

It limits the ways criminals can get a gun. What's the downside?

Oh that's right, there isn't any.

Criminals do not do background checks.

Background checks do not matter to criminals.

Background checks do not "limit" criminals from getting guns.

A criminal did not perpetrate the Sandy Hook tragedy; a mentally deranged person did.

You didn't know that, did you?

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[soultrain]

Criminals do not do background checks.

Background checks do not matter to criminals.

Background checks do not "limit" criminals from getting guns.

A criminal did not perpetrate the Sandy Hook tragedy; a mentally deranged person did.

You didn't know that, did you?

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Not entirely true....government goons (aka criminals) are given "background checks" before being turned loose to kick in doors and shoot family pets

[Daan]

Not entirely true....government goons (aka criminals) are given "background checks" before being turned loose to kick in doors and shoot family pets

I've seen them in action in my neighborhood. The house they raided, it was determined, was the result of bad information.

The people were left to repair the damage at their own expense.

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[The Shadow]

Background checks and registering sales is "extreme".....

"Give in to your children’s demands for toy guns, and tell them to go play army. Nerf, water, plastic pellet, etc. Kill each other for fun. Give in to their demands for video games. Let them play bloody video games where they kill, regenerate, then kill again. Watch body parts fly all over the place. Let them watch violent movies and television. Allow them to buy the music of gangsta rappers and death metal. Promote violence in our society as pure entertainment. Desensitize their minds. Don’t bother to find out who their friends are. Remove morals, values, and cause/effect from their lives, and encourage them to “act out” and “express themselves”. Don't teach them manners or about showing respect. Give them Prozac, Ritalin and other pharmaceuticals for their short attention spans. Further desensitization. Couple it all with poor parenting, and allow them to run wild with no discipline or restrictions on their behavior...............Now blame the guns." -OverTheCoastLine